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What's the second best TNG film?

SpaceClown77

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 337

Report this Oct. 22 2009, 10:15 am

Quote (rocketscientist @ Oct. 22 2009, 9:01 am)
Quote (TheChronicOne @ Oct. 21 2009, 3:54 pm)
Indeed! It's cool to know others feel the way I do.

It just seems like there has been alot of complaining about it... and it was deemed a failure by some. I just don't see why. I find it very enjoyable to watch just like you two.

Y'know, when I think about, I really don't think NEM had as many problems as GEN did. ?Really, I think the script is actually better and yeah, you do have that kick-a$$ battle at the end.

I mean, NEM did feel like a stronger and better story than the convoluted, contrived GEN did with it's weak ending.

You know what's sad RS? That NEM had the potential to be not only the best TNG film but one of the highlights of the entire franchise. I think some of that is displayed on the screen and the rest sadly never really materialized. The good points outweigh the bad points IMO though.

I still find NEM very enjoyable though, despite it's faults. It's got an interesting story, great production values, excellent action(I like the dune buggy action scene actually) and some well written dialogue in places. I've watched it four or five times since nuTrek came out and I seem to like it more each time I watch it. Again, it's no sci-fi masterpiece or anything but a good film overall I think. It didn't deserve to do so badly at the box office.

SaturnsRings

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Oct. 22 2009, 10:54 am

Quote (SpaceClown77 @ Oct. 22 2009, 10:15 am)
Quote (rocketscientist @ Oct. 22 2009, 9:01 am)
Quote (TheChronicOne @ Oct. 21 2009, 3:54 pm)
Indeed! It's cool to know others feel the way I do.

It just seems like there has been alot of complaining about it... and it was deemed a failure by some. I just don't see why. I find it very enjoyable to watch just like you two.

Y'know, when I think about, I really don't think NEM had as many problems as GEN did. ?Really, I think the script is actually better and yeah, you do have that kick-a$$ battle at the end.

I mean, NEM did feel like a stronger and better story than the convoluted, contrived GEN did with it's weak ending.

You know what's sad RS? That NEM had the potential to be not only the best TNG film but one of the highlights of the entire franchise. I think some of that is displayed on the screen and the rest sadly never really materialized.

I still find NEM enjoyable though, despite it's faults. It's got an interesting story, great production values, excellent action(I like the dune buggy action scene) and some well written dialogue in places. I've watched it four or five times since nuTrek came out and I seem to like it more each time I watch it. Again, it's no sci-fi masterpiece or anything but a good film overall I think. It didn't deserve to do so badly at the box office.

I agree with your assessment. I also like the dune buggy scene. I do not think Nemesis deserves the bad rap it gets. I too have watched it a few times since the new movie came out. I misunderstood a couple of scenes and one of them must have gone right over my head but now as I have understood the movie more clearly my appreciation for it has grown.

I do think there are some flaws as there are with all movies but all in all I really do enjoy Nemesis.

One of my biggest complaints is that since they had Spiner play Data and B4 I wish Stewart had also done double duty as Picard and Shinzon. That would have made better sense and would have been easier to accept Shinzon as a Picard clone. That would have meant changing a scene or two but I think it would have been a better film.

SpaceClown77

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 337

Report this Oct. 22 2009, 10:59 am

Quote (SaturnsRings @ Oct. 22 2009, 10:54 am)
I wish Stewart had also done double duty as Picard and Shinzon. That would have made better sense and would have been easier to accept Shinzon as a Picard clone. That would have meant changing a scene or two but I think it would have been a better film.

Nah, I see Shinzon as Picard's son. It works better for me that way, it makes more sense you know?

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Oct. 22 2009, 11:03 am

Quote (SpaceClown77 @ Oct. 22 2009, 10:15 am)
Quote (rocketscientist @ Oct. 22 2009, 9:01 am)
Quote (TheChronicOne @ Oct. 21 2009, 3:54 pm)
Indeed! It's cool to know others feel the way I do.

It just seems like there has been alot of complaining about it... and it was deemed a failure by some. I just don't see why. I find it very enjoyable to watch just like you two.

Y'know, when I think about, I really don't think NEM had as many problems as GEN did. ?Really, I think the script is actually better and yeah, you do have that kick-a$$ battle at the end.

I mean, NEM did feel like a stronger and better story than the convoluted, contrived GEN did with it's weak ending.

You know what's sad RS? That NEM had the potential to be not only the best TNG film but one of the highlights of the entire franchise. I think some of that is displayed on the screen and the rest sadly never really materialized. The good points outweigh the bad points IMO though.

I still find NEM very enjoyable though, despite it's faults. It's got an interesting story, great production values, excellent action(I like the dune buggy action scene actually) and some well written dialogue in places. I've watched it four or five times since nuTrek came out and I seem to like it more each time I watch it. Again, it's no sci-fi masterpiece or anything but a good film overall I think. It didn't deserve to do so badly at the box office.

I am still somewhat at a loss for why NEM failed so miserably at the box office. While not the best of the Star Trek films, it was also not the worst, but it performed terribly both from a revenue standpoint and from a critical standpoint.

There are a lot of theories / opinions I've seen on the board. Some I agree with, some I do not... At the end of it all, my guess is that a number of things contributed to NEM's failure far beyond the quality of the basic finished product.

1. "Franchise fatigue"
2. "Insurrection" being such a below-average movie
3. ENT was not well-received by fans
4. TNG not having the same consistent big-screen draw that the original crew had
5. Box office competition from Harry Potter and LOTR (neither of which I saw!;)
6. A derivitive plot, which to critics and general audiences probably seemed very formulaic
7. Hardcore fan objection spreading poor word of mouth

SaturnsRings

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POSTS: 0

Report this Oct. 22 2009, 11:17 am

Quote (SpaceClown77 @ Oct. 22 2009, 10:59 am)
Quote (SaturnsRings @ Oct. 22 2009, 10:54 am)
I wish Stewart had also done double duty as Picard and Shinzon. That would have made better sense and would have been easier to accept Shinzon as a Picard clone. That would have meant changing a scene or two but I think it would have been a better film.

Nah, I see Shinzon as Picard's son. It works better for me that way, it makes more sense you know?

Yeah, that makes sense too.

subytrek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 39018

Report this Oct. 22 2009, 1:04 pm

I used to think that way too; that Picard should have played himself and the clone but watching it again the movie actually explains this point very well. Shinzon, "Not the face you remember." "They broke my nose, my jaw." While he looks fairly close, he doesn't look exactly the same because of the life he's lived. I like concept of this movie and of course the action. I used to think Insurrection was better but I'm not so sure now.

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Oct. 22 2009, 5:38 pm

Quote (subytrek @ Oct. 22 2009, 10:04 pm)
I used to think that way too; that Picard should have played himself and the clone but watching it again the movie actually explains this point very well. Shinzon, "Not the face you remember." "They broke my nose, my jaw." While he looks fairly close, he doesn't look exactly the same because of the life he's lived. I like concept of this movie and of course the action. I used to think Insurrection was better but I'm not so sure now.

Hardy actually wore a fake nose during the whole shooting process to match Stewart's appearance!

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Oct. 23 2009, 1:48 am

Quote
Hardy actually wore a fake nose during the whole shooting process to match Stewart's appearance!


Obviously didn't help the cause.

SpaceClown77

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 337

Report this Oct. 23 2009, 4:35 am

Quote (Vger23 @ Oct. 22 2009, 11:03 am)
1. "Franchise fatigue"

That's my number one reason NEM did so badly. Trek needed a break, it was going non stop for 15 years at that point, it always ends up being bad when a franchise keeps going and going and going without a rest.

That's why I think nuTrek was so successful(their's other reasons but I think it's the main reason), four long years went by without their being any Trek. It's called ''power of anticipation''

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Oct. 23 2009, 7:29 am

Quote (SpaceClown77 @ Oct. 23 2009, 4:35 am)
Quote (Vger23 @ Oct. 22 2009, 11:03 am)
1. "Franchise fatigue"

That's my number one reason NEM did so badly. Trek needed a break, it was going non stop for 15 years at that point, it always ends up being bad when a franchise keeps going and going and going without a rest.

That's why I think nuTrek was so successful(their's other reasons but I think it's the main reason), four long years went by without their being any Trek. It's called ''power of anticipation''

I think "franchise fatigue" only sets in if the franchise isn't evolving. I think you could have had Star Trek non-stop for 15+ years and, if it was constantly changing and evolving and challenging the audiences, it still would have survived.

Unfortunately, the vocal minority segment of the fans wanted "more of the same," and Berman was too short-sighted and not brave enough to ignore them and push the franchise in new directions.

What you ended up with were two TNG clones on television (VOY and ENT) and some lackluster run-of-the-mill feature films.

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