Captan_jean_luc_picard_1A GROUP: Members POSTS: 416  |
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Oct. 05 2009, 7:03 pm
| Quote (kludge77 @ Oct. 05 2009, 12:58 pm) | I envy you. Getting to watch Voyager again for the first time.. For me it was great to see the first non-enterprise starship flung out to the far reaches of our galaxy.
"Both crews are going to have to work together if we're to survive. That's why Commander Chakotay and I have agreed that this should be one crew. A Starfleet crew. And as the only Starfleet vessel assigned to the Delta Quadrant, we'll continue to follow our directive to seek out new worlds and explore space. But our primary goal is clear. Even at maximum speeds, it would take seventy five years to reach the Federation, but I'm not willing to settle for that. "
Awesome.
As for Neelix, Yeah, a bit annoying, but he's good for perspective.
KES: Do all nebulas look like that?
NEELIX: I wouldn't know. I'm smart enough to go around nebulas when I encounter them.
KES: These people are natural born explorers, Neelix.
NEELIX: These people are natural born idiots, if you ask me. They don't appreciate what they have here. This ship is the match of any vessel within a hundred light years, and what do they do with it? 'Well, uh, let's see if we can't find some space anomaly today that might rip it apart!' |
Please stop quoting the end of eps. your ruining the chance for people who may have not watched it yet. I have. But I don't want to ruin it for other people. Neelix is funny. I wont say why cuz I want this user to catch on. Later! |
kludge77 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1477 |
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Oct. 05 2009, 7:08 pm
| Quote (Captan_jean_luc_picard_1A @ Oct. 05 2009, 4:03 am) | | Quote (kludge77 @ Oct. 05 2009, 12:58 pm) | I envy you. Getting to watch Voyager again for the first time.. For me it was great to see the first non-enterprise starship flung out to the far reaches of our galaxy.
"Both crews are going to have to work together if we're to survive. That's why Commander Chakotay and I have agreed that this should be one crew. A Starfleet crew. And as the only Starfleet vessel assigned to the Delta Quadrant, we'll continue to follow our directive to seek out new worlds and explore space. But our primary goal is clear. Even at maximum speeds, it would take seventy five years to reach the Federation, but I'm not willing to settle for that. "
Awesome.
As for Neelix, Yeah, a bit annoying, but he's good for perspective.
KES: Do all nebulas look like that?
NEELIX: I wouldn't know. I'm smart enough to go around nebulas when I encounter them.
KES: These people are natural born explorers, Neelix.
NEELIX: These people are natural born idiots, if you ask me. They don't appreciate what they have here. This ship is the match of any vessel within a hundred light years, and what do they do with it? 'Well, uh, let's see if we can't find some space anomaly today that might rip it apart!' |
Please stop quoting the end of eps. ?your ruining the chance for people who may have not watched it yet.
I have. ?But I don't want to ruin it for other people.
Neelix is funny.
I wont say why cuz I want this user to catch on.
Later! |
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exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Oct. 05 2009, 7:18 pm
Even though it was few and far in between, I liked how Be'Lanna & Neelix played off each other as the show plays out.
He was like a pressure valve for her. If you notice along the way, she's a little less angry when he's around.
It was the little things like that I liked about Neelix.
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brcarthey GROUP: Members POSTS: 2608 |
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Oct. 05 2009, 7:23 pm
| Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 05 2009, 7:18 pm) | Even though it was few and far in between, I liked how Be'Lanna & Neelix played off each other as the show plays out. ¿
He was like a pressure valve for her. ¿If you notice along the way, she's a little less angry when he's around.
It was the little things like that I liked about Neelix. |
classic line later on in the series b/t them that i don't want to reveal yet so the fans who are watching/re-watching it will be pleasantly surprised. |
MrsStarbuck GROUP: Members POSTS: 4329 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 5:49 am
| Quote (kludge77 @ Oct. 05 2009, 12:58 pm) | "Both crews are going to have to work together if we're to survive. That's why Commander Chakotay and I have agreed that this should be one crew. A Starfleet crew. And as the only Starfleet vessel assigned to the Delta Quadrant, we'll continue to follow our directive to seek out new worlds and explore space. But our primary goal is clear. Even at maximum speeds, it would take seventy five years to reach the Federation, but I'm not willing to settle for that. "
Awesome.
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I LOVED this speech! It brought a tear to my eye. And presumably summed up perfectly the primary mission of the whole series, as well as illustrating just what an awesome captain Janeway is. | Quote (Captan_jean_luc_picard_1A @ Oct. 05 2009, 1:03 am) |
Please stop quoting the end of eps. ¿your ruining the chance for people who may have not watched it yet. |
I think it would be fair to say that if you come into a thread about a particular episode, then you're going to get spoilers for that episode. Heck, my review pretty much gives the whole episode away. I've avoided reading any of the threads on here that deal with things I haven't seen yet. I don't think we can discuss things in any depth unless we mention things that have happened in the episodes, and IMO it should be up to noobs like me to be more discerning with which threads I open, rather than you guys all having to watch what you post in case you spoil something. Just my take on it anyway. But thanks for caring about newcomers Captain P. |
ssmukhi GROUP: Members POSTS: 65791  |
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Oct. 06 2009, 6:02 am
| Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 06 2009, 5:49 pm) | | Quote (kludge77 @ Oct. 05 2009, 12:58 pm) | "Both crews are going to have to work together if we're to survive. That's why Commander Chakotay and I have agreed that this should be one crew. A Starfleet crew. And as the only Starfleet vessel assigned to the Delta Quadrant, we'll continue to follow our directive to seek out new worlds and explore space. But our primary goal is clear. Even at maximum speeds, it would take seventy five years to reach the Federation, but I'm not willing to settle for that. "
Awesome.
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I LOVED this speech! It brought a tear to my eye. And presumably summed up perfectly the primary mission of the whole series, as well as illustrating just what an awesome captain Janeway is. |
With all due respect, I found that this speech was given by Janeway just to save face. After all, it was she who gave the order to DESTROY the array, their only means of getting home. I would have liked it better if the array actually self destructed. Also, what I find missing in this episode was...the grief. Where was all the grief for all the dead crewmembers? Janeway lost her first officer, engineer, medical staff and a whole lot more! All she is worried about is Ensign Kim and not bringing his clarinet! |
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MrsStarbuck GROUP: Members POSTS: 4329 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 6:17 am
| Quote (ssmukhi @ Oct. 05 2009, 12:02 pm) | With all due respect, I found that this speech was given by Janeway just to save face. After all, it was she who gave the order to DESTROY the array, their only means of getting home. I would have liked it better if the array actually self destructed.
Also, what I find missing in this episode was...the grief. Where was all the grief for all the dead crewmembers? Janeway lost her first officer, engineer, medical staff and a whole lot more! All she is worried about is Ensign Kim and not bringing his clarinet! |
But then she didn't exactly have a choice did she? She didn't just destroy the array for the hell of it. As for the grief, I think I'm yet to see ANY starship Captain display appropriate grief when one of their crewmembers is killed (possibly Kirk in TWOK...but he's over him pretty quickly). I'm not sure that grief is something that Trek in general does that well. Or maybe I haven't seen the 'right' episodes yet. |
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ssmukhi GROUP: Members POSTS: 65791 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 7:36 am
| Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 06 2009, 6:17 pm) | But then she didn't exactly have a choice did she? She didn't just destroy the array for the hell of it.
As for the grief, I think I'm yet to see ANY starship Captain display appropriate grief when one of their crewmembers is killed (possibly Kirk in TWOK...but he's over him pretty quickly).
I'm not sure that grief is something that Trek in general does that well. Or maybe I haven't seen the 'right' episodes yet. |
She didn't lose just two or three crewmembers. I forgot the number but I think it was over 50! I'm sure anyone would grieve over that! Also, what did they do with the bodies? Send it to the replicators for recycling?  |
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MrsStarbuck GROUP: Members POSTS: 4329 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 8:23 am
| Quote (ssmukhi @ Oct. 05 2009, 1:36 pm) | | She didn't lose just two or three crewmembers. I forgot the number but I think it was over 50! I'm sure anyone would grieve over that! Also, what did they do with the bodies? Send it to the replicators for recycling? ¿ |
Okay, you make a good point. Maybe she did all her grieving in private, off screen. I'm sure she would want to appear in control at all times in front of her crew, not breaking down in tears every five minutes. Or maybe she was in shock. From my own personal experience of losing someone very close to me, I think for the first few weeks I just went into autopilot mode and became very efficient at sorting out all the practical affairs, just because I needed something to occupy my mind with. |
ENT567 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5267 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 9:01 am
| Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Posted: Oct. 02 2009, 7:37 pm) | | So tonight I did what you all suggested and started at the beginning with Caretaker, and...wow, what an awesome episode! |
I agree. Imo, it shares the top position of best Trek pilots with ENT's Broken Bow (then goes The Cage). |
SLagonia GROUP: Members POSTS: 18170 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 9:46 am
| Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 05 2009, 9:17 am) | | But then she didn't exactly have a choice did she? She didn't just destroy the array for the hell of it. |
She had a choice, and she chose to destroy the array, stranding her crew. I don't have a problem with this, really - She saved an entire civilization... Granted, that civilization will soon be extict due to their curious reproductive cycles, but still... Anyway, my problem is more with her sloppy use of the prime directive. This was clearly a violation. That's fine except she would later uphold the directive even if it meant the destruction of an entire species, so what was so special about the Ocampa? Why did she risk her ship and crew to save a civilization when she would refuse to help others at no harm to herself? |
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exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 9:59 am
| Quote (SLagonia @ Oct. 06 2009, 9:46 am) | | Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 05 2009, 9:17 am) | | But then she didn't exactly have a choice did she? She didn't just destroy the array for the hell of it. |
She had a choice, and she chose to destroy the array, stranding her crew.
I don't have a problem with this, really - She saved an entire civilization... ?Granted, that civilization will soon be extict due to their curious reproductive cycles, but still...
Anyway, my problem is more with her sloppy use of the prime directive. ?This was clearly a violation. ?That's fine except she would later uphold the directive even if it meant the destruction of an entire species, so what was so special about the Ocampa? ?Why did she risk her ship and crew to save a civilization when she would refuse to help others at no harm to herself? |
Because when the Caretaker beamed Harry & Be'Lanna down to the Ocampian city, the Prime Directive was already broken. ?By the Caretaker doing this, he was already exposing the Ocampa to cultures & technology that was foriegn to them. ?Janeway now had to get involved due to the Caretaker already breaking the Prime Directive for her. Janeway upheld the Prime Directive in situations they weren't directly involved in. However, I think we've seen enough Trek to know the rules regarding the Prime Directive aren't always black & white. It's mainly a rule book to remind us that there are consequences to our actions. |
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SLagonia GROUP: Members POSTS: 18170 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 11:28 am
| Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 05 2009, 12:59 pm) | | Quote (SLagonia @ Oct. 06 2009, 9:46 am) | | Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 05 2009, 9:17 am) | | But then she didn't exactly have a choice did she? She didn't just destroy the array for the hell of it. |
She had a choice, and she chose to destroy the array, stranding her crew.
I don't have a problem with this, really - She saved an entire civilization... ?Granted, that civilization will soon be extict due to their curious reproductive cycles, but still...
Anyway, my problem is more with her sloppy use of the prime directive. ?This was clearly a violation. ?That's fine except she would later uphold the directive even if it meant the destruction of an entire species, so what was so special about the Ocampa? ?Why did she risk her ship and crew to save a civilization when she would refuse to help others at no harm to herself? |
Because when the Caretaker beamed Harry & Be'Lanna down to the Ocampian city, the Prime Directive was already broken. ?By the Caretaker doing this, he was already exposing the Ocampa to cultures & technology that was foriegn to them. ?Janeway now had to get involved due to the Caretaker already breaking the Prime Directive for her. ¿Janeway upheld the Prime Directive in situations they weren't directly involved in. ¿However, I think we've seen enough Trek to know the rules regarding the Prime Directive aren't always black & white. ¿It's mainly a rule book to remind us that there are consequences to our actions. |
First of all, that would be a really tiny tecnicality. Second, once the prime directive is broken, it is a captain's highest responsibility to limit the damage done. I'm not sure how this could be considered limited the damage. It's not like you are playing a game of hearts, and someone throws a heart down and suddenly hearts is broken and there's no turning back now. The prime directive is not just about first contact, it's about contact in general. You don't mess with their healthy growth. Again, I don't actually mind what she did, only that she would have an inconsistent enforcement of the directive throughout the series. Look at Blink of an Eye - She can't tell the inhabitents about what is going on and how to help themselves, but she can use the astronaut she captured to interpret the data she collected. When she gets something out of it, she usually has no problem breaking the directive. |
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exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 12:33 pm
| Quote (SLagonia @ Oct. 06 2009, 11:28 am) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 05 2009, 12:59 pm) | | Quote (SLagonia @ Oct. 06 2009, 9:46 am) | | Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 05 2009, 9:17 am) | | But then she didn't exactly have a choice did she? She didn't just destroy the array for the hell of it. |
She had a choice, and she chose to destroy the array, stranding her crew.
I don't have a problem with this, really - She saved an entire civilization... ?Granted, that civilization will soon be extict due to their curious reproductive cycles, but still...
Anyway, my problem is more with her sloppy use of the prime directive. ?This was clearly a violation. ?That's fine except she would later uphold the directive even if it meant the destruction of an entire species, so what was so special about the Ocampa? ?Why did she risk her ship and crew to save a civilization when she would refuse to help others at no harm to herself? |
Because when the Caretaker beamed Harry & Be'Lanna down to the Ocampian city, the Prime Directive was already broken. ?By the Caretaker doing this, he was already exposing the Ocampa to cultures & technology that was foriegn to them. ?Janeway now had to get involved due to the Caretaker already breaking the Prime Directive for her. ?Janeway upheld the Prime Directive in situations they weren't directly involved in. ?However, I think we've seen enough Trek to know the rules regarding the Prime Directive aren't always black & white. ?It's mainly a rule book to remind us that there are consequences to our actions. |
First of all, that would be a really tiny tecnicality.
Second, once the prime directive is broken, it is a captain's highest responsibility to limit the damage done. ?I'm not sure how this could be considered limited the damage.
It's not like you are playing a game of hearts, and someone throws a heart down and suddenly hearts is broken and there's no turning back now. ?The prime directive is not just about first contact, it's about contact in general. ?You don't mess with their healthy growth.
Again, I don't actually mind what she did, only that she would have an inconsistent enforcement of the directive throughout the series. ?Look at Blink of an Eye - She can't tell the inhabitents about what is going on and how to help themselves, but she can use the astronaut she captured to interpret the data she collected. ?When she gets something out of it, she usually has no problem breaking the directive. |
It's not a tiny technicallity, the Ocampians phyically saw Harry & Torres as well as other species the Caretaker sent them. ?Janeway couldn't get them back & still limit her exposure, the damage was already done. "Blink...." was completely different. ?The people below never saw or knew what was on Voyager. ?They didn't even know Voyager was a ship. ?That lack of knowledge allowed Janeway to limit their exposure by having only one person(the astronaut) see them. ?Still, the astronauts invaded Voyager without the crew knowledge and permission. ?So they broke the PD, not Janeway. ?However, in both examples the PD was already broken the moment the other species was introduced to us before Janeways involvement. ?Janeway didn't break it. As I said, the Prime Directive isn't black & white. ?Sometimes under certain situations it can be bent or due to scenarios such as the Ocampa/Caretaker can be broken. |
lostshaker GROUP: Members POSTS: 2293 |
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Oct. 06 2009, 1:19 pm
Janeway wasn't severely breaking the prime directive in "Blink of an Eye", at least not on purpose. Voyager's orbit was causing the planet seismic activity and that's what drew the inhabitants' attention to the "sky ship". Janeway shared the data because they knew that within seconds of the pilot returning that the planet would have surpassed or at least be near the technological level of a warp civilization. The fact that ships from the planet come up with tractor beams and temporal communications supports this.
In regards to "Caretaker" too much emphasis is being placed on how the Prime Directive affects the Ocampa. That wasn't the sole point of Janeway destroying the array. She destroyed the array to keep it out of the hands of the Kazon, because it could shift the balance of power in the Quadrant to them. The Ocampa were just being used as an example to the immediacy of the threat. The Caretaker even told Janeway that the Kazon must not get their hands on the array. Janeway was consistent with her use of the PD here.
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