JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587  |
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Sep. 30 2009, 12:35 pm
Should Janeway have attempted to rescue more drones? After all, they were all assimilated against their will. Were drones really enemies or were they simply victims?
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exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Sep. 30 2009, 12:57 pm
No, because it took allot of time and patience to bring Seven even half way back to being human. ¿It would take lots of councellors and nearly 24/7 attention to help restore each drone to individuality, if even possable. ¿Just like Seven was at first, many wouldn't want to be free.
However, before that you also have to consider that each drone isn't human. ¿Who's going to councel species of aliens of unknown cultures? ¿You couldn't councel a Hirogen on how to regain his culture with a human councellor. ¿ What of Klingons, Cardassians, etc. ¿Do they even have counceling in their culture or would they see a former drone as a threat or abomination and kill them anyway?
Even Picard knew that most drones can't be saved.
He believed killing them was the best solution to end their sufferring.
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nthdrone GROUP: Members POSTS: 17288 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 2:21 am
When I was restored to humanity, I resented it. Humans are small, weak, insignificant with their precious individuality. Their dreams, hopes and aspirations are irrelevant!
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JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 7:41 am
| Quote (exodus201 @ Sep. 30 2009, 12:57 pm) | No, because it took allot of time and patience to bring Seven even half way back to being human. ?It would take lots of councellors and nearly 24/7 attention to help restore each drone to individuality, if even possable. ?Just like Seven was at first, many wouldn't want to be free.
However, before that you also have to consider that each drone isn't human. ?Who's going to councel species of aliens of unknown cultures? ?You couldn't councel a Hirogen on how to regain his culture with a human councellor. ? What of Klingons, Cardassians, etc. ?Do they even have counceling in their culture or would they see a former drone as a threat or abomination and kill them anyway?
Even Picard knew that most drones can't be saved.
He believed killing them was the best solution to end their sufferring. |
But what about the drones in Unimatrix Zero? They were freed and it looked like they would be OK without all that counseling. Or maybe Unimatrix Zero was a bad idea because it goes against the original premise of the drones being un-salvageable. |
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JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 7:42 am
| Quote (nthdrone @ Oct. 01 2009, 2:21 am) | | When I was restored to humanity, I resented it. Humans are small, weak, insignificant with their precious individuality. Their dreams, hopes and aspirations are irrelevant! |
No just yours are.  Just kidding, Nth. How are you? Long time no see!  |
brcarthey GROUP: Members POSTS: 2608 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 9:01 am
i'm not sure what category my answer falls under, but beyond what exodus says about differences in a species' culture, i think you also have to take a morpheus-like approach from matrix. depending on how long and at what age a person was assimilated should dictate if they should be rescued or not. obviously, most of the people on the borg sphere were assimilated as adults and therefore not drones for very long. they wouldn't need as much re-acclimation. same could be seen to apply to kids who weren't drones for long. but, someone like seven who had been assimilated as a child and therefore spent most of her life as an adult that would be unfeasible to free millions or billions of drones and hope they make a positive transition. same with a drone who was assimilated as an adult and are now elderly. i guess the modern day analogy would be the US prison system and how successful prisoners are to re-acclimating to society upon being freed.
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exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 9:18 am
| Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 01 2009, 7:41 am) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Sep. 30 2009, 12:57 pm) | No, because it took allot of time and patience to bring Seven even half way back to being human. ?It would take lots of councellors and nearly 24/7 attention to help restore each drone to individuality, if even possable. ?Just like Seven was at first, many wouldn't want to be free.
However, before that you also have to consider that each drone isn't human. ?Who's going to councel species of aliens of unknown cultures? ?You couldn't councel a Hirogen on how to regain his culture with a human councellor. ? What of Klingons, Cardassians, etc. ?Do they even have counceling in their culture or would they see a former drone as a threat or abomination and kill them anyway?
Even Picard knew that most drones can't be saved.
He believed killing them was the best solution to end their sufferring. |
But what about the drones in Unimatrix Zero? They were freed and it looked like they would be OK without all that counseling. Or maybe Unimatrix Zero was a bad idea because it goes against the original premise of the drones being un-salvageable. |
Unimatrix Zero was total B.S. How are those drones free and not rejecting their Borg implants? Plus wasn't the dilemma brought up in "Unity" that ex-Borg will start to remember who they are and all their prejudices will return, throwing them into chaos? Even Seven still retained her prejudice as well. |
Cherry_On_Top GROUP: Members POSTS: 2039 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 11:07 am
wouldn't that be a violation of the prime directive. Distastefull to us as the borg society is it is still a society
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kludge77 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1477 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 11:17 am
| Quote (Cherry_On_Top @ Sep. 30 2009, 8:07 pm) | | wouldn't that be a violation of the prime directive. ¿Distastefull to us as the borg society is it is still a society |
It's more of a suggestion to Janeway anyway... |
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brcarthey GROUP: Members POSTS: 2608 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 11:24 am
| Quote (Cherry_On_Top @ Oct. 01 2009, 11:07 am) | | wouldn't that be a violation of the prime directive. ¿Distastefull to us as the borg society is it is still a society |
is it truly a society? i think they're more akin to al qaeda than an actual society that can be defined by boundaries. |
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JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 11:38 am
That's a good question. Is it really a society if it was created by kidnapping members of other species? Plus, since they are warp capable so doesn't that mean the Prime Directive doesn't apply? What if various species were kidnapped and living as slaves on a ship. If that ship was bent on trying to take over a planet and forever fighting with Voyager how would Janeway handle those slaves? Suppose those slaves were brainwashed? Would she attempt to rescue and rehabilitate them or would she deem them also the enemy and try to destroy them. How would they be any different than Borg Drones?
As far as Al Qaeda is concerned, aren't those people recruited then brainwashed? I don't think Al Qaeda kidnaps its soldiers, but I could be wrong. I think people join of their own free will.
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JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 11:41 am
| Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 01 2009, 9:18 am) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 01 2009, 7:41 am) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Sep. 30 2009, 12:57 pm) | No, because it took allot of time and patience to bring Seven even half way back to being human. ?It would take lots of councellors and nearly 24/7 attention to help restore each drone to individuality, if even possable. ?Just like Seven was at first, many wouldn't want to be free.
However, before that you also have to consider that each drone isn't human. ?Who's going to councel species of aliens of unknown cultures? ?You couldn't councel a Hirogen on how to regain his culture with a human councellor. ? What of Klingons, Cardassians, etc. ?Do they even have counceling in their culture or would they see a former drone as a threat or abomination and kill them anyway?
Even Picard knew that most drones can't be saved.
He believed killing them was the best solution to end their sufferring. |
But what about the drones in Unimatrix Zero? They were freed and it looked like they would be OK without all that counseling. Or maybe Unimatrix Zero was a bad idea because it goes against the original premise of the drones being un-salvageable. |
Unimatrix Zero was total B.S.
How are those drones free and not rejecting their Borg implants? ¿Plus wasn't the dilemma brought up in "Unity" that ex-Borg will start to remember who they are and all their prejudices will return, throwing them into chaos? ¿Even Seven still retained her prejudice as well. |
When you say "all their prejudices" are you talking about as drones or as the species they were before they were drones. I thought in Unity, they used Borg technology to control pre-drone predjudices such as those that might occur between a Bajoran and a Cardassian. |
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kludge77 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1477 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 11:44 am
| Quote (Cherry_On_Top @ Sep. 30 2009, 8:07 pm) | | wouldn't that be a violation of the prime directive. ¿Distastefull to us as the borg society is it is still a society |
I recall a conversation about this... I thought it was in the Gift, but I can't find it. |
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exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 12:03 pm
| Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 01 2009, 11:41 am) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 01 2009, 9:18 am) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 01 2009, 7:41 am) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Sep. 30 2009, 12:57 pm) | No, because it took allot of time and patience to bring Seven even half way back to being human. ?It would take lots of councellors and nearly 24/7 attention to help restore each drone to individuality, if even possable. ?Just like Seven was at first, many wouldn't want to be free.
However, before that you also have to consider that each drone isn't human. ?Who's going to councel species of aliens of unknown cultures? ?You couldn't councel a Hirogen on how to regain his culture with a human councellor. ? What of Klingons, Cardassians, etc. ?Do they even have counceling in their culture or would they see a former drone as a threat or abomination and kill them anyway?
Even Picard knew that most drones can't be saved.
He believed killing them was the best solution to end their sufferring. |
But what about the drones in Unimatrix Zero? They were freed and it looked like they would be OK without all that counseling. Or maybe Unimatrix Zero was a bad idea because it goes against the original premise of the drones being un-salvageable. |
Unimatrix Zero was total B.S.
How are those drones free and not rejecting their Borg implants? ?Plus wasn't the dilemma brought up in "Unity" that ex-Borg will start to remember who they are and all their prejudices will return, throwing them into chaos? ?Even Seven still retained her prejudice as well. |
When you say "all their prejudices" are you talking about as drones or as the species they were before they were drones. I thought in Unity, they used Borg technology to control pre-drone predjudices such as those that might occur between a Bajoran and a Cardassian. |
As the species they are. Yes, they did "control" them using Borg tech. That really isn't much different than the Borg enforcing their will on others. As the saying goes: Good intentions often pave the road to Hell. |
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JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
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Oct. 01 2009, 12:15 pm
| Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 01 2009, 12:03 pm) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 01 2009, 11:41 am) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 01 2009, 9:18 am) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 01 2009, 7:41 am) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Sep. 30 2009, 12:57 pm) | No, because it took allot of time and patience to bring Seven even half way back to being human. ?It would take lots of councellors and nearly 24/7 attention to help restore each drone to individuality, if even possable. ?Just like Seven was at first, many wouldn't want to be free.
However, before that you also have to consider that each drone isn't human. ?Who's going to councel species of aliens of unknown cultures? ?You couldn't councel a Hirogen on how to regain his culture with a human councellor. ? What of Klingons, Cardassians, etc. ?Do they even have counceling in their culture or would they see a former drone as a threat or abomination and kill them anyway?
Even Picard knew that most drones can't be saved.
He believed killing them was the best solution to end their sufferring. |
But what about the drones in Unimatrix Zero? They were freed and it looked like they would be OK without all that counseling. Or maybe Unimatrix Zero was a bad idea because it goes against the original premise of the drones being un-salvageable. |
Unimatrix Zero was total B.S.
How are those drones free and not rejecting their Borg implants? ?Plus wasn't the dilemma brought up in "Unity" that ex-Borg will start to remember who they are and all their prejudices will return, throwing them into chaos? ?Even Seven still retained her prejudice as well. |
When you say "all their prejudices" are you talking about as drones or as the species they were before they were drones. I thought in Unity, they used Borg technology to control pre-drone predjudices such as those that might occur between a Bajoran and a Cardassian. |
As the species they are.
Yes, they did "control" them using Borg tech.
That really isn't much different than the Borg enforcing their will on others. ¿
As the saying goes: Good intentions often pave the road to Hell. |
I agree. I'm not saying that the Borg control in Unity was any better. I was just asking you to clarify what you meant about prejudices returning. I don't really have an answer here, but its something I always wondered. First with Seven, did they rescue her because she was human? Then with the Borg kids, who weren't fully drones anyway and never would have been brought into the collective. But given that Picard, Janeway, Torres, Tuvok, etc. had also become drones and rescued from the Borg, I always wondered why didn't they attempt to rescue others when given the opportunity. |
