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What is your opinion regarding slash?

ZarabethS179

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POSTS: 401

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 4:46 pm

As an avid fanzine collector, I am quite familiar with slash fiction, particularly K/S.

I'm rather indifferent to it, and I tend to view it as just another romantic pairing. Like any other fanzines, some have good stories and art, while others do not.

However, I was just wondering how other Trek fans felt about it.

Sorry if this has been done before. I'm new.

BrotherofShran01

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 5:53 pm

I am not a fan of slash. I do not wish to offend those who do, but I do not like fiction that do not truthfully represent the characters involved. If the characters are not created that way by the creator(s) of the characters, then respect the vision involved then the creator(s) of that character or characters made them - not the way some want them to be. It doesn't honor the characters who were created, the purpose of why they were created, and the fans who grew up with them to respect them as heroes. There is no what if, until it becomes cannon - leave it alone.

Jamaca

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POSTS: 518

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 8:54 pm

It doesn't bother me- I love reading about it. I was never into the K/S belief at all- but after reading so much slash involving them it kinda grew on me. However, I do NOT imagine Kirk to be gay- but its ok for me to read about it.

There are alot of crap stories out there, but so many wonderful ones.

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 9:30 pm

Gene Roddenberry invented a word - T'hy'la - this word was invented to describe the relationship between Kirk and Spock. It means 'friend, brother, lover'

The beauty of the way that Kirk and Spock are written and portrayed is that if one chooses to interpret their relationship as just friends/brothers then that is what one will see, but equally if one wishes to interpret their relationship as being deeper than that, then that is also valid.

There are many, many slash pairings that have NO basis in canon, however Kirk/Spock are not one of those pairings. There are hundreds of moments that are specifically designed by GR, DC and other writers (notably Theodore Sturgeon) that more than suggest that their relationship was more than just 'brothers'.

Gene Roddenberry's vision was a future where old ideas about what is acceptable are no longer current (multi-cultural crews, a black woman and a Russian as part of a command team, aliens and humans working together). Why is it so outside the realms of possibility that he wrote these characters (Kirk and Spock) as not only a metaphor for love between human and alien, but also love between two men...or does acceptance not extend to homosexuality? So it's okay for characters of different species to be in relationship (numerous examples through all of Star Trek) but it is not okay for members of the same sex to be in relationship - is this the last prejudice? Does the concept of Kirk and Spock being homosexual preclude them from being heroes? In my opinion it makes their story even MORE heroic.

As actors Shatner and Nimoy made the choice to play the characters as deeply intimate with each other. The intesity of their numerous contacts with each other is palpable.

I wonder if folks who decry Kirk/Spock fiction as being 'out of character' have read much of it. I have read hundreds if not thousands of K/S stories and far from being 'out of character' the stories are very much in character and merely thake the final step towards writing their relationship as being physical. I have read a number of straight Star Trek novels which to me 'miss' on character completely and as a result end up being boring and superficial, so does that mean that all Star Trek novels are boring and superficial? No, of course not. I challengefolk who know little or nothing of real Kirk/Spock literature to read the works of Killa or Amanda Warrington or any number of other truly great writers in the genre and then make a comment that these are 'out of character'.

I personally do not like stories where characters are just slashed for the sake of it (Harry Potter fanfic leaps to mind). No I demand that my characters are written true to canon and I do and would not approve of 'shipping' for the sake of it. For example Alan Shore and Denny Crane, who have defined the field of 'bromance' They are beautiful together, but I would NEVER slash them because it is explicitly made clear that their realtionship is platonic...in other words it is not 'canon'. I personally do not slash Kirk/Spock in the nuTrek because there is nothing there to suggest that they have that sort of relationship (and of course it is expressly shown that Spock/Uhura are an item. So you see I am perfectly capable of NOT slashing when canon indicates otherwise, conversely I reserve the right to slash when it is obvious from canon that the relationship exists eg Kirk/Spock.

This is my sepcial subject and I could go on the quote many and varied sources to prove my case, however I am completely aware that those who do not like the idea will never accept any evidence to the contrary and so therefore it is wasted effort.

GR did not deny slash and he INVENTED a word that is a key to understanding what he was trying to achieve with these characters, that's good enough for me. And I will continue to read and write K/S because it is canon.

Jamaca

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POSTS: 518

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 9:55 pm

MG, that was very well written.

Another reason it doesn't bother me is that it has helped, in my eyes, keep the series alive even more.

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:15 pm

So much of what is going on with Kirk and Spock is couched in euphanism, yet the intensity and truth is never compromised. I love their story, it spans 30 yeras, their love overcomes all trials, including death. No greater love story has been told in the modern era, in my opinion.

"Your name is Jim!"
"Yes"

:rookie: :logical:

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:18 pm

I love it! That sums it up lol

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:19 pm

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Sep. 13 2009, 7:15 pm)
So much of what is going on with Kirk and Spock is couched in euphanism, yet the intensity and truth is never compromised. I love their story, it spans 30 yeras, their love overcomes all trials, including death. No greater love story has been told in the modern era, in my opinion.

"Your name is Jim!"
"Yes"

:rookie: :logical:

Or more erotic.  ;)  :logical:

Mirrorgirl

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POSTS: 15692

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:20 pm

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Sep. 14 2009, 12:19 pm)
Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Sep. 13 2009, 7:15 pm)
So much of what is going on with Kirk and Spock is couched in euphanism, yet the intensity and truth is never compromised. I love their story, it spans 30 yeras, their love overcomes all trials, including death. No greater love story has been told in the modern era, in my opinion.

"Your name is Jim!"
"Yes"

:rookie: :logical:

Or more erotic. ¿;) ¿:logical:

So much 'eye-sex'', so much 'touching', the source material is endless with these guys  ;)

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:24 pm

Quote (MarmaladeSkies @ Sep. 13 2009, 7:21 pm)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Sep. 13 2009, 7:18 pm)
I love it! That sums it up lol

You're a slash fan, Bax? I didn't know that.

I'm not a slash believer but I like to read the stories sometimes. I do not personally believe that the TOS men had sexual relationships with each other, but I am open to talking and reading about it.

It's interesting to say the least and isn't limited to K/S either.

Jamaca

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POSTS: 518

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:35 pm

MS, that is the video that made me really believe in a possible K/S relationship. I was ENTHRALLED with it for weeks. And since that was once a fave song of mine, it made it even better.

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:41 pm

MG's (by no means exhaustive) list of TOS's slashiest moments:

The Corbomite Manuever: 'Emotional Security scene' (so much eye-sex)
Miri: 'I DO want to go back to the ship...Captain' scene (more eye-sex than a girl can handle)
The Enemy Within: 'Is there something I can do for you Captain?' scene (actually the whole episode, really)
The Naked Time: 'I've spent my whole lifetime learning how to hide my feelings' scene (again the whole episode is a slashfest. Spock RAN from Chapel to profess his 'firendship' for Jim - there's one of those euphanisms, right there)
Shore Leave: 'the back rub scene' (which makes no sense unless they are lovers)
A Taste of Armageddon: the final scene, just watch it, total slashfest
This Side of Paradise: Total slashfest
Amok Time: Total slashfest
The Search for Spock: Total slashfest
The Voyage Home: Total slashfest

Please name a female love interest for Kirk or Spock in any of the movies (and don't say Gillian, one dinner - takeaway, and a peck on the cheek does not count as a Universe shattering 'romance' - however defying Starfleet, stealing the Enterprise and crashing it into a planet to save Spock does come closer to 'romance' in my opinion)

The above is only a TINY smattering of the slash moments in TOS. I include them as only the most obvious. There are literally hundreds of ments in canon that are slashy. I can recommend further reading for anyone who is interest...but of course if you are interested, you will have already found most of the resource materials, like Laura Goodwin, K/S Archive etc.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:42 pm

Quote (MarmaladeSkies @ Sep. 13 2009, 7:31 pm)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Sep. 13 2009, 7:24 pm)
It's interesting to say the least and isn't limited to K/S either.

Interesting. You're the first male slash fan I've met here. I know it's not limited to K/S either...there are other options that I think about too, but I won't go into detail here.

Funny thing, when I first checked my email today, I found that my hubby had sent me a slash video that he liked on YT. It's the NIN one for those in the know.

I like slash regardless if it's m/m, m/f, f/f if its good its good.  :logical:

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:45 pm

This scene makes no sense if Kirk is the 'womanizing' 'hetero-horndog' people like to believe he is.

Back Rub Scene

Jamaca

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POSTS: 518

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 10:47 pm

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Sep. 13 2009, 10:45 pm)
This scene makes no sense if Kirk is the 'womanizing' 'hetero-horndog' people like to believe he is.

Back Rub Scene

Love it- love how they slowed down the "look".

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