Star Trek

Quote (Alisium @ Oct. 10 2009, 5:18 pm)

First rule of posting on forums. If you post more than five or six pages in one post, it's probably not going to get read. We're all suffering from ADHD.

Actually, I had wanted to post more of the link cited above, but the system chopped off my last couple of paragraphs. Shucks, since there is so much interest in this thread, I will just go ahead and cite them here:

"Though the Republican war against ACORN contributed to the 'prosecutor-gate' scandal, GOP operatives carried the fight into the 2008 presidential campaign seizing on some ACORN employees who apparently were padding their registration numbers by submitting bogus forms with fake names like 'Mickey Mouse.'

For its part, ACORN has insisted that its own quality control flagged many of the suspicious registration forms before they were submitted to state officials and that state laws often require outside registration groups to submit all forms regardless of obvious problems.
...

CRS (Conressional Reseacrh Office) was asked to determine whether the 'Defund ACORN Act,' an amendment sponsored by Issa, that passed the House last week and other pieces of legislation aimed at specifically stripping ACORN of federal funds is unconstitutional or 'would represent an unlawful bill of attainder.'

The claim that the 'Defund ACORN Act' represented a bill-of-attainder violation was mentioned by Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-New York, last week after the passage of the amendment.

'The Constitution says that Congress shall never pass a Bill of Attainder,' Nadler said during a floor speech after last week¿s vote. 'Bills of Attainder, no matter what their form, apply either to a named individual or to easily ascertainable members of a group, to inflict punishment. That's exactly what this amendment does.

'It may be that ACORN is guilty of various infractions, and, if so, it ought to be vetted, or maybe sanctioned, by the appropriate administrative agency or by the judiciary. Congress must not be in the business of punishing individual organizations or people without trial.'"

So, ACORN gets victimized first by unethical and illegal efforts to target them for federal investigation for purely political reasons.

Meanwhile, some folks try to cheat ACORN out of some funds in the form of salaries by submitting falsified voter registration forms.

Then a right-wing journalist sets-up a sting operation in which, after much effort, he finally gets a couple of ACORN's most foolish employees to get caught saying stupid things while unknowingly being videod (a crime in some states).

Then yahoos like Glen Beck start the drums of media attention citing the "investigations" into ACORNs alleged voter fraud activities, based on the attempts to defraud ACORN as noted above.

Beck, and other right-wing cronies, also cite the infamous submittal of fraudulent forms, in which ACORN complied with the law by submitting the forms and then themselves pointed out to election officials that the forms appeared to be fraudulent in nature. Exactly what the law prescribed them to do.

Terrified by all of this cooked up negative media attention, Congress passes what may be a bill-of-attainder violation piece of legislation to placate the right wingers.

So, in all of this it strikes me that ACORN is the victim many times over. Of course we all know what the Republicans just love to do to victims, why blame them of course. Do you suppose it just might have something to do with the fact that ACORN works to organize blacks and latinos?

Why...*gasps* that would be racist, and we all know that racism has just completely disappeared form the good old United States.

Yeah...I have given you guys a lot to read. So my suggestion is that you get off your fat posteriors and read what I have submitted for your consideration.

Source:

Public Record

Quote (caltrek @ Oct. 09 2009, 11:47 pm)

Quote (Alisium @ Oct. 10 2009, 5:18 pm) First rule of posting on forums. If you post more than five or six pages in one post, it's probably not going to get read. We're all suffering from ADHD. Actually, I had wanted to post more of the link cited above, but the system chopped off my last couple of paragraphs. Shucks, since there is so much interest in this thread, I will just go ahead and cite them here: "Though the Republican war against ACORN contributed to the 'prosecutor-gate' scandal, GOP operatives carried the fight into the 2008 presidential campaign seizing on some ACORN employees who apparently were padding their registration numbers by submitting bogus forms with fake names like 'Mickey Mouse.' For its part, ACORN has insisted that its own quality control flagged many of the suspicious registration forms before they were submitted to state officials and that state laws often require outside registration groups to submit all forms regardless of obvious problems. ... CRS (Conressional Reseacrh Office) was asked to determine whether the 'Defund ACORN Act,' an amendment sponsored by Issa, that passed the House last week and other pieces of legislation aimed at specifically stripping ACORN of federal funds is unconstitutional or 'would represent an unlawful bill of attainder.' The claim that the 'Defund ACORN Act' represented a bill-of-attainder violation was mentioned by Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-New York, last week after the passage of the amendment. 'The Constitution says that Congress shall never pass a Bill of Attainder,' Nadler said during a floor speech after last week?s vote. 'Bills of Attainder, no matter what their form, apply either to a named individual or to easily ascertainable members of a group, to inflict punishment. That's exactly what this amendment does. 'It may be that ACORN is guilty of various infractions, and, if so, it ought to be vetted, or maybe sanctioned, by the appropriate administrative agency or by the judiciary. Congress must not be in the business of punishing individual organizations or people without trial.'" So, ACORN gets victimized first by unethical and illegal efforts to target them for federal investigation for purely political reasons. Meanwhile, some folks try to cheat ACORN out of some funds in the form of salaries by submitting falsified voter registration forms. Then a right-wing journalist sets-up a sting operation in which, after much effort, he finally gets a couple of ACORN's most foolish employees to get caught saying stupid things while unknowingly being videod (a crime in some states). Then yahoos like Glen Beck start the drums of media attention citing the "investigations" into ACORNs alleged voter fraud activities, based on the attempts to defraud ACORN as noted above. Beck, and other right-wing cronies, also cite the infamous submittal of fraudulent forms, in which ACORN complied with the law by submitting the forms and then themselves pointed out to election officials that the forms appeared to be fraudulent in nature. Exactly what the law prescribed them to do. Terrified by all of this cooked up negative media attention, Congress passes what may be a bill-of-attainder violation piece of legislation to placate the right wingers. So, in all of this it strikes me that ACORN is the victim many times over. Of course we all know what the Republicans just love to do to victims, why blame them of course. Do you suppose it just might have something to do with the fact that ACORN works to organize blacks and latinos? Why...*gasps* that would be racist, and we all know that racism has just completely disappeared form the good old United States. Yeah...I have given you guys a lot to read. So my suggestion is that you get off your fat posteriors and read what I have submitted for your consideration. Source: Public Record

Witholding federal funds, that is our taxes, is now a federal

crime? Nadler is an assclown.

The Obama freekshow continues.

Quote

Witholding federal funds, that is our taxes, is now a federal crime?

What is being looked into as possibly unlawful is specifying an individual or organization by name in such witholding of federal funds. It is not a crime in the sense that Congress would be held criminally liable. Rather, at some point a determination would be made that Congress acted unlawfully, in which case the legislative act in question would be judged to be unconstitutional and therefore not be allowed to take effect. At least that is how I understand it.

Establishing general guidelines to follow in witholding funds is clearly lawful. The problem conservatives face is how to establish such guidelines that would affect ACORN but not corporations that have actually been found guilty of illegal acts. Like the big Defense Department contractors that have been guilty of defrauding the government, or Big Pharma companies such as Pfizer that was fined billions of dollars for mislabeling or mismarketing the purposes of an anti-inflammatory drug called Bexstra.

If you want to use the power of the purse to withold tax dollars from organizations that misbehave, why not legislation that lays out guidelines that apply equitably across the board. Why pick on ACORN, whose transgressions don't even come close to approaching the misconduct of firms such as Pfizer, or the big defense contractors?

I don't understand how the Congress cannot target a specific organization if that organization is found to be corrupt. Would it be better to cut everyone off then? Is that the idea. Everyone or no one?

If one organization is defunct, it doesn't make sense to punish all of them covered under the legislation just to cut out the problem.

I forget the tally (not being facetious) but, how many states now is Acorn under investigation for voter fraud and other charges? There has to come a time, Caltrek, when you have to acknowledge that the issues with ACORN are more than mere isolated incidents.

Acorn is EVIL, and it's nuts should be exposed, for all to see.