exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0  |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 10:13 am
| Quote (ENT567 @ Oct. 06 2009, 6:11 am) | I expected more from this episode.
Since I'm not much interested in "superpowers" stuff, Kes's storyline wasn't very intersting to me. But it was fun to see Ambassador Soval there.
I didn't understand why they needed Suspiria if they had the other array... I mean, in Caretaker they couldn't get back home not because the creature died but because they had to destroy the array, right? Or, Suspiria's array was different and could not get them back to the Alpha Quadrant?
(I saw the ep only once, so I'm sorry if I missed something) |
The Ocampa lived on the Array. Janeway couldn't use it without their permission. |
JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 12:12 pm
| Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:17 pm) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:16 am) | | Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 27 2009, 1:56 pm) | "Cold Fire" was Voyager's best episode.
"Worst Case Scenario" was Voyager's last episode. Then the sequel "Seven Of Nine" started with most of the former Voyager characters as extras. |
I never thought of it that way before, but I can see where that comes from especially if you just look at season 4. |
The funny thing is, if you count scenes, lines or episodes, this isn't true.
Voyager became--like TOS--a series that focused on 3 characters: ?Janeway, Seven & the Doc.
Janeway, as captain, was still the focus with the most scenes and the most lines.
Even in season 4. |
I know, I've done the line count. But sometimes it's all about perception rather than facts. In this case, if you just look at Season 4, there's a perception that Voyager became all about Seven. Now I do understand that Seven's character had some catching up to do, so it did make sense that they spent time on her. But I also see Lynx's point of view and can understand why he thinks that way, especially since he really didn't focus on episodes after Season 3 and only saw a handful of the episodes after Fury. I think Season 7 was one of Voyager's best seasons, if not the best, and many of those episodes are reminiscent of the earlier seasons, such as Shattered for example. I also think the focus became more evenly spread among the characters as well by that point. |
|
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 12:24 pm
| Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 06 2009, 12:12 pm) | | Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:17 pm) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:16 am) | | Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 27 2009, 1:56 pm) | "Cold Fire" was Voyager's best episode.
"Worst Case Scenario" was Voyager's last episode. Then the sequel "Seven Of Nine" started with most of the former Voyager characters as extras. |
I never thought of it that way before, but I can see where that comes from especially if you just look at season 4. |
The funny thing is, if you count scenes, lines or episodes, this isn't true.
Voyager became--like TOS--a series that focused on 3 characters: ?Janeway, Seven & the Doc.
Janeway, as captain, was still the focus with the most scenes and the most lines.
Even in season 4. |
I know, I've done the line count. But sometimes it's all about perception rather than facts. In this case, if you just look at Season 4, there's a perception that Voyager became all about Seven.
Now I do understand that Seven's character had some catching up to do, so it did make sense that they spent time on her. But I also see Lynx's point of view and can understand why he thinks that way, especially since he really didn't focus on episodes after Season 3 and only saw a handful of the episodes after Fury.
I think Season 7 was one of Voyager's best seasons, if not the best, and many of those episodes are reminiscent of the earlier seasons, such as Shattered for example. ?I also think the focus became more evenly spread among the characters as well by that point. |
I'm sorry but Lynx' perception is bullsh*t. He's only has that opinion because Kes is gone. If he didn't "focus" on anything after s3, then he didn't watch objectively. You can't count on him to have a non-bias opinion. |
ENT567 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5267 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 1:29 pm
| Quote (exodus201 @ Posted: Oct. 06 2009, 10:13 am) | | The Ocampa lived on the Array. Janeway couldn't use it without their permission. |
And that's it??? I don't remember the crew even consider getting to the array, while they for some reason got concentrated on finding Suspiria. After the Ocampa's weird leader was gone together with the creature into subspace or whatever, the crew might have tried to talk the Ocampa into letting them use the array to get back home... No? |
|
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 2:19 pm
| Quote (ENT567 @ Oct. 06 2009, 1:29 pm) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Posted: Oct. 06 2009, 10:13 am) | | The Ocampa lived on the Array. Janeway couldn't use it without their permission. |
And that's it??? I don't remember the crew even consider getting to the array, while they for some reason got concentrated on finding Suspiria. After the Ocampa's weird leader was gone together with the creature into subspace or whatever, the crew might have tried to talk the Ocampa into letting them use the array to get back home... No? |
No, because the Ocampa on the Array hated Voyager too. |
|
ENT567 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5267 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 2:39 pm
| Quote | | No, because the Ocampa on the Array hated Voyager too. |
But their leader liked Kes. The other Ocampa might have liked her too... That story has some plotholes, unfortunately. |
|
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 2:50 pm
| Quote (ENT567 @ Oct. 06 2009, 2:39 pm) | | Quote | | No, because the Ocampa on the Array hated Voyager too. |
But their leader liked Kes. The other Ocampa might have liked her too... That story has some plotholes, unfortunately. |
..because she was Ocampia. He kept telling Kes that he felt the Voyager crew were lesser beings compared to them. He called them "pets". I'm not sure it's plot holes as much as it's you're not remembering the details clearly. |
|
ENT567 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5267 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 3:56 pm
| Quote | | I'm not sure it's plot holes as much as it's you're not remembering the details clearly. |
Maybe you don't remember the details clearly. Nobody tried to speak with the Ocampa on the array. If that opportunity was "implied but not shown", then it's a mere plothole. |
|
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 4:03 pm
| Quote (ENT567 @ Oct. 06 2009, 3:56 pm) | | Quote | | I'm not sure it's plot holes as much as it's you're not remembering the details clearly. |
Maybe you don't remember the details clearly. Nobody tried to speak with the Ocampa on the array. If that opportunity was "implied but not ?shown", then it's a mere plothole. |
Janeway tried at the openning of the ep., they told her to go away. ?They only openned up dialog when they found Kes onboard. ?Tanis contacted Susperia about Kes and Voyager, Susperia told him to: ..do what you wish with Kes but she wanted Voyager destroyed. ?That told the entire audience that the Ocampa on the Array weren't going to help Voyager in anyway. So no, it's not a plothole. ?You just aren't remembering clearly because everything you asked was covered in the episode itself. You said you only saw the ep. once, how can you be sure you're correct if you yourself said you didn't recall everything? |
|
JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 4:06 pm
| Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 06 2009, 12:24 pm) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 06 2009, 12:12 pm) | | Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:17 pm) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:16 am) | | Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 27 2009, 1:56 pm) | "Cold Fire" was Voyager's best episode.
"Worst Case Scenario" was Voyager's last episode. Then the sequel "Seven Of Nine" started with most of the former Voyager characters as extras. |
I never thought of it that way before, but I can see where that comes from especially if you just look at season 4. |
The funny thing is, if you count scenes, lines or episodes, this isn't true.
Voyager became--like TOS--a series that focused on 3 characters: ?Janeway, Seven & the Doc.
Janeway, as captain, was still the focus with the most scenes and the most lines.
Even in season 4. |
I know, I've done the line count. But sometimes it's all about perception rather than facts. In this case, if you just look at Season 4, there's a perception that Voyager became all about Seven.
Now I do understand that Seven's character had some catching up to do, so it did make sense that they spent time on her. But I also see Lynx's point of view and can understand why he thinks that way, especially since he really didn't focus on episodes after Season 3 and only saw a handful of the episodes after Fury.
I think Season 7 was one of Voyager's best seasons, if not the best, and many of those episodes are reminiscent of the earlier seasons, such as Shattered for example. ?I also think the focus became more evenly spread among the characters as well by that point. |
I'm sorry but Lynx' perception is bullsh*t.
He's only has that opinion because Kes is gone.
If he didn't "focus" on anything after s3, then he didn't watch objectively.
You can't count on him to have a non-bias opinion. |
Not really. I agree that Voyager had a different feel in Seasons 4 to 7 than it did in Seasons 1 - 3. There were a lot of differences, not just the addition of Seven. They never landed the ship, for example. Chakotay's character took a back seat to almost everyone else, and Voyager started to feel a lot more like TNG, which was done intentionally. So I could see him calling it a "sequel" and I think he has a good point. Although I do think his view is a little more narrow for not having seen Season 7. |
kludge77 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1477 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 4:07 pm
|
|
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 4:14 pm
| Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 06 2009, 4:06 pm) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Oct. 06 2009, 12:24 pm) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Oct. 06 2009, 12:12 pm) | | Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:17 pm) | | Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 28 2009, 10:16 am) | | Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 27 2009, 1:56 pm) | "Cold Fire" was Voyager's best episode.
"Worst Case Scenario" was Voyager's last episode. Then the sequel "Seven Of Nine" started with most of the former Voyager characters as extras. |
I never thought of it that way before, but I can see where that comes from especially if you just look at season 4. |
The funny thing is, if you count scenes, lines or episodes, this isn't true.
Voyager became--like TOS--a series that focused on 3 characters: ?Janeway, Seven & the Doc.
Janeway, as captain, was still the focus with the most scenes and the most lines.
Even in season 4. |
I know, I've done the line count. But sometimes it's all about perception rather than facts. In this case, if you just look at Season 4, there's a perception that Voyager became all about Seven.
Now I do understand that Seven's character had some catching up to do, so it did make sense that they spent time on her. But I also see Lynx's point of view and can understand why he thinks that way, especially since he really didn't focus on episodes after Season 3 and only saw a handful of the episodes after Fury.
I think Season 7 was one of Voyager's best seasons, if not the best, and many of those episodes are reminiscent of the earlier seasons, such as Shattered for example. ?I also think the focus became more evenly spread among the characters as well by that point. |
I'm sorry but Lynx' perception is bullsh*t.
He's only has that opinion because Kes is gone.
If he didn't "focus" on anything after s3, then he didn't watch objectively.
You can't count on him to have a non-bias opinion. |
Not really. I agree that Voyager had a different feel in Seasons 4 to 7 than it did in Seasons 1 - 3. There were a lot of differences, not just the addition of Seven. They never landed the ship, for example. Chakotay's character took a back seat to almost everyone else, and Voyager started to feel a lot more like TNG, which was done intentionally. So I could see him calling it a "sequel" and I think he has a good point. Although I do think his view is a little more narrow for not having seen Season 7. |
He's also admitted he's never watched much of the show after Kes left and only returned to watch it when Kes returned. How is his opinion not bias about something he's never seen? If it were someone else that watched the entire show after season 3, then we could have a real debate about it but I'm not going to put any stock in someones opinion that didn't bother to watch it and is only forming an opinion due to his character getting replaced by the one in question. |
|
JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 4:17 pm
Yeah. I agree with you there. Even if he did watch those post Kes episodes, I'm sure he did so with resentment and he never saw Season 7, where I thought they struck a great balance with the characters.
|
|
ENT567 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5267 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 4:20 pm
| Quote (exodus201 @ Posted: Oct. 06 2009, 4:03 pm) | | Janeway tried at the openning of the ep., they told her to go away. They only openned up dialog when they found Kes onboard. Tanis contacted Susperia about Kes and Voyager, Susperia told him to: ..do what you wish with Kes but she wanted Voyager destroyed. That told the entire audience that the Ocampa on the Array weren't going to help Voyager in anyway. |
That absolutely doesn't explain why the crew gave up so easily or why they didn't try again AFTER even Susperia changed her mind about Voyager. | Quote | | You just aren't remembering clearly because everything you asked was covered in the episode itself. |
No, it was't. | Quote | | You said you only saw the ep. once, how can you be sure you're correct if you yourself said you didn't recall everything? |
You've probably seen the ep million times but still didn't see them trying to contact the array after their weird leader was gone (he might be the main reason why they had the bad opinion about Voyager because he was the one who contacted Suspiria) and after Suspiria changed her mind about Voyager. I didn't see that either. So, I do remember the details better than you though I saw it just once. |
|
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
Report this
Oct. 06 2009, 4:29 pm
| Quote (ENT567 @ Oct. 06 2009, 4:20 pm) | | Quote (exodus201 @ Posted: Oct. 06 2009, 4:03 pm) | | Janeway tried at the openning of the ep., they told her to go away. They only openned up dialog when they found Kes onboard. Tanis contacted Susperia about Kes and Voyager, Susperia told him to: ..do what you wish with Kes but she wanted Voyager destroyed. That told the entire audience that the Ocampa on the Array weren't going to help Voyager in anyway. |
That absolutely doesn't explain why the crew gave up so easily or why they didn't try again AFTER even Susperia changed her mind about Voyager.
| Quote | | You just aren't remembering clearly because everything you asked was covered in the episode itself. |
No, it was't.
| Quote | | You said you only saw the ep. once, how can you be sure you're correct if you yourself said you didn't recall everything? |
You've probably seen the ep million times but still didn't see them trying to contact the array after their weird leader was gone (he might be the main reason why they had the bad opinion about Voyager because he was the one who contacted Suspiria) and after Suspiria changed her mind about Voyager. I didn't see that either. So, I do remember the details better than you though I saw it just once. |
the Array disappeared along with Susperia. If you remembered correctly, you'd know the Ocampa didn't want to help Voyager because they along with Susperia blamed Voyager for killing the Caretaker. They weren't going to help people they saw as murderers. Seriously, watch the ep. again. |
