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Year of Heck Question

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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POSTS: 2016

Report this Sep. 03 2009, 11:19 pm

So Annorax kept trying to bring his wife back, but if she died before he began his journey wouldn't he only be able to change history from the time he actually began his journey?  For example if the first time machine was built in 2015 the basic theory of time travel suggests you could only go back in time and change history as early as 2015.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Sep. 04 2009, 5:46 pm

try again

scnj

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Report this Sep. 04 2009, 6:08 pm

No. His erasing things from history itself impacts the timeline in the past, present and future. If he were to erase a planet, it would have never existed, so he can affect things from before he started.

captbates

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Report this Sep. 04 2009, 6:14 pm

That's correct Annorax wiped out the colony on Kyana Prime with a temporal incursion, erasing his wife from existence.

The Incursions can remove anything that isn't protected by temporal shielding from the timeline, and this is not limited to the time after the weapon was built.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 12:28 am

interesting....so defies all theories of time travel.  So what do you think prevented his goal.  Would it lack of better words be God's punishment?

scnj

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 9:51 am

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Sep. 05 2009, 12:28 am)
interesting....so defies all theories of time travel.

You mean that if I built a time machine in 2009 with the purpose of going back to 1937 to kill Hitler, upon completing that task, Hitler would be dead, so there would be no need to build a time machine, so the time machine would never be built, so I'd never have gone back in time to kill Hitler, so Hitler would live and I'd build a time machine to go back and kill him and NYAGHHH! Paradox alert!

Anyway, that's avoided by the temporal shielding around the time ship. It essentially exists outside the time/space continuum, so even if Annorax wiped his own parents from history, he would still continue to exist as long as he stayed inside his temporal shielding.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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POSTS: 2016

Report this Sep. 05 2009, 11:54 am

Ok so why do you guys think he could never hit his goal...he had been traveling for many years to get it and it never happened.

scnj

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 12:25 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Sep. 05 2009, 11:54 am)
Ok so why do you guys think he could never hit his goal...he had been traveling for many years to get it and it never happened.

It's possible that he never caused the right temporal incursion. It's also possible that the right incursion could never be made. We were shown at the end that the only way to bring his wife back was to destroy the ship and give up the crusade.

ssmukhi

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 1:28 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Sep. 04 2009, 11:19 am)
So Annorax kept trying to bring his wife back, but if she died before he began his journey wouldn't he only be able to change history from the time he actually began his journey? ¿For example if the first time machine was built in 2015 the basic theory of time travel suggests you could only go back in time and change history as early as 2015.

Remember the simulation that Chakotay tried. He erased a comet, but it affected the evolution of over 50 civilizations and therefore those 50 civilizations ceased to exist. Clearly, he erased history further back to when the temporal weapon was invented.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 2:11 pm

I suppose that is true by being outside of spacetime like they were they could theoretically alter the events of anytime.  I often wondered if that was really what happened.  I don't think that because the ship was destroyed that Annorax's wife came back, I think that was just a flashback in time when we saw Annorax happier.  Maybe the director did that so in the end we wouldn't see him as a completely evil man, just a man who became evil with obsession.

ssmukhi

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 2:43 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Sep. 06 2009, 2:11 am)
I suppose that is true by being outside of spacetime like they were they could theoretically alter the events of anytime. ¿I often wondered if that was really what happened. ¿I don't think that because the ship was destroyed that Annorax's wife came back, I think that was just a flashback in time when we saw Annorax happier. ¿Maybe the director did that so in the end we wouldn't see him as a completely evil man, just a man who became evil with obsession.

Not just a flashback. Everything that Annorax did was erased, thus restoring the original timeline. Even Voyager went back to "Day 1".

scnj

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 2:50 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Sep. 05 2009, 2:11 pm)
I suppose that is true by being outside of spacetime like they were they could theoretically alter the events of anytime. ¿I often wondered if that was really what happened. ¿I don't think that because the ship was destroyed that Annorax's wife came back, I think that was just a flashback in time when we saw Annorax happier. ¿Maybe the director did that so in the end we wouldn't see him as a completely evil man, just a man who became evil with obsession.

The time ship was destroyed and history took a different course. Voyager goes back to day 1 and the Krenim Imperium is much smaller, and the officer is friendlier.

It shows Annorax with his wife, and it shows him put the datapad down to spend time with her. I always took that as a hint that they were showing the day he would have made the breakthrough in his calculations, and because he chose to put his work down, the timeship was never created.

This is all just my view on it. I don't think there's been an official statement released.

captbates

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 3:03 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Sep. 04 2009, 5:28 am)
interesting....so defies all theories of time travel. ¿So what do you think prevented his goal. ¿Would it lack of better words be God's punishment.

Annorax did mention that the colony was remote, at the edge of Krenim space, and was probably one of the newest outposts that the Krenim had, and so would be the last world restored, needing around 100% success, which was probably beyond anyone's ability due to the complex nature of the maths.

Quote
RedShirtGuyNumber1001 Posted on Sep. 04 2009, 7:11 pm
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I suppose that is true by being outside of spacetime like they were they could theoretically alter the events of anytime. ¿I often wondered if that was really what happened. ¿I don't think that because the ship was destroyed that Annorax's wife came back, I think that was just a flashback in time when we saw Annorax happier. ¿Maybe the director did that so in the end we wouldn't see him as a completely evil man, just a man who became evil with obsession.



The temporol incursions pushed an "object" out of time, meaning that whatever impact that "object" had on the timeline it was changed, so if something existed for millions of years and was removed by Annorax the changes would effect the timeline for millions of years.

When we see Annorax at the end it did look like there could be hope when he puts his work down to go to his wife, however it doesn't seem possible that he would revert so far back in time after his ship is destroyed and the timeline restored. I would agree that it's more likely that we get a glimpse of happier times, with the warning that he is still working on the weapon.

BloodFever

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Report this Sep. 05 2009, 3:45 pm

My understandng of Annorax's attempts to return his wife was that he was also trying to keep the Krenim Imperium as well.  Perhaps if he had just reversed everything he had done, he would have succeeded, but he wanted to have his cake and eat it, too.

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Sep. 05 2009, 4:59 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Sep. 03 2009, 4:19 am)
So Annorax kept trying to bring his wife back, but if she died before he began his journey wouldn't he only be able to change history from the time he actually began his journey? ¿For example if the first time machine was built in 2015 the basic theory of time travel suggests you could only go back in time and change history as early as 2015.

Here's another question, if Annorax's ship had been roaming for 200yrs, then once the colony was restored wouldn't his wife be dead now anyway?

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