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And So it Begins

deepspaceniner999

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POSTS: 664

Report this Sep. 03 2009, 9:00 pm

Kes debate. Not Kes BASH, but a debate. I know, most people think Seven of Nine was a better character in many respects and I must agree. That's not to say I didn't like Kes, because I did. But I didn't like her as much as Seven. I think that "The Proverbial They" didn't have anywhere else to go with her character after Species 8472. Could that be why they made a better ending for Kes in "Fury"? I wonder. Let it begin.....  :laugh:

kludge77

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POSTS: 1477

Report this Sep. 16 2009, 3:08 pm

Gift was a rushed story to make the end "Get plain Kes out, get Borg babe in." I concur, Seven is a much better character. Kes reminded me of Yar (was I the only one cheering at her death?)

I would have liked her to evolve to a Q, and find out the the Okompas were their proverbial ancestors. That would have been cool...

kludge77

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POSTS: 1477

Report this Sep. 16 2009, 3:36 pm

Quote (Admiral_JTK @ Sep. 16 2009, 3:32 pm)


You people will never learn. Never.

in my defense... I'm a newbie, so I get a free pass right!? :)

kludge77

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POSTS: 1477

Report this Sep. 16 2009, 10:25 pm

Quote (Admiral_JTK @ Sep. 16 2009, 9:43 pm)
Hey whatever - go ahead, noobs gotta learn too I guess.
Its just that virtually anything remotely related to Tinkerbell is never a good idea and always turns out bad in the end.

I jumped for joy was well at Tasha's departing, but not nearly as much as I did upon the removal of the useless ocampan fairy. In my opinion, every frame spent on her/them was a unnecessary waste of writer's time, production time and my time.

I found some of those "discussions" since I've posted this. I'll refrain from stoking the flames...

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this Sep. 16 2009, 10:50 pm

Quote (kludge77 @ Sep. 16 2009, 10:25 pm)
I'll refrain from stoking

Heh Heh

Lucifer_

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POSTS: 12834

Report this Sep. 16 2009, 11:35 pm

It's kind of hard to have a "debate" about something that's completely subjective, such as who's better or which final Kes episode was the best.

Josh_Lyman

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POSTS: 5520

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 1:07 am

Fury was a very good episode.

Lucifer_

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POSTS: 12834

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 8:00 am

I've said it before, I'll say it again...when you look at Fury as a fall and redemption tale, it's not mindless character assassination of Kes. "She would never do such things" people say. I disagree. If there's been any kind of constant in Trek it's that power corrupts. The other ocampa who had powers also turned out to be an @$$hole. Yeah, it kind of sucked seeing Kes turn on the crew like she did, but in the end Kes managed to save herself from herself and that's what mattered most to me.

One of my other favorite Kes roles was in Warlord. She played such an awesome bad girl, Lien could have played a recurring villiain in ENT if she wasn't busy being a full time mom.

JOYOFVGR

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POSTS: 11594

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 8:36 am

Quote (Lucifer_ @ Sep. 17 2009, 8:00 am)
Lien could have played a recurring villiain in ENT if she wasn't busy being a full time mom.

Was she offered a role, or are you just speculating? :question:

Commander_Zelkar

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POSTS: 7250

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 9:10 am



RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

kludge77

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POSTS: 1477

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 12:39 pm

Quote (Josh_Lyman @ Sep. 17 2009, 1:07 am)
Fury was a very good episode.

Agreed... So was the one were she was going backward through time. I cannot recall the name right now.

But mostly, she was just too sticky sweet. Always nice and rarely wrong. Who's really like that? No one. That's why it's hard to identify with her. Additionally the Neelix character got so much more interesting when Kes was gone. No longer the jealous sap.

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 12:43 pm

Quote (kludge77 @ Sep. 17 2009, 12:39 pm)
Quote (Josh_Lyman @ Sep. 17 2009, 1:07 am)
Fury was a very good episode.

Agreed... So was the one were she was going backward through time. I cannot recall the name right now.

But mostly, she was just too sticky sweet. Always nice and rarely wrong. Who's really like that? No one. That's why it's hard to identify with her. Additionally the Neelix character got so much more interesting when Kes was gone. No longer the jealous sap.

Agreed.

Kes lacked any type of depth to her personality.
For someone that lived isolated and underground, had never seen another being but her own kind, never seen much less knew what a starship was, she was never surprised or amazed by any of it.  The Doc/Seven was amazed by something we take for granted like cheesecake in "Body & Soul".  Kes acted like nothing she was discovering was a big deal.  Lame.

brcarthey

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POSTS: 2608

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 12:58 pm

Quote (kludge77 @ Sep. 17 2009, 12:39 pm)
Agreed... So was the one were she was going backward through time. I cannot recall the name right now.

But mostly, she was just too sticky sweet. Always nice and rarely wrong. Who's really like that? No one. That's why it's hard to identify with her. Additionally the Neelix character got so much more interesting when Kes was gone. No longer the jealous sap.

"before & after"

after reading someone's post that they read that braga originally wanted kes to evolve into a villain (i think). the one thing i've been wondering lately with all this talk of when kes was a possessed bad girl in "warlord" and later when she returned demented in "fury."  i wondered if "warlord" was a test as to whether or not lien could handle playing a villain on a more regular basis.  and since she was cut by the following season TPTB didn't think she could or would want to handle it.  

i can't see lien handling that role but that's based on her previous performance.  while kes was a nice character she was too bland for my taste.

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 1:01 pm

Quote (brcarthey @ Sep. 17 2009, 12:58 pm)
Quote (kludge77 @ Sep. 17 2009, 12:39 pm)
Agreed... So was the one were she was going backward through time. I cannot recall the name right now.

But mostly, she was just too sticky sweet. Always nice and rarely wrong. Who's really like that? No one. That's why it's hard to identify with her. Additionally the Neelix character got so much more interesting when Kes was gone. No longer the jealous sap.

"before & after"

after reading someone's post that they read that braga originally wanted kes to evolve into a villain (i think). the one thing i've been wondering lately with all this talk of when kes was a possessed bad girl in "warlord" and later when she returned demented in "fury." ¿i wondered if "warlord" was a test as to whether or not lien could handle playing a villain on a more regular basis. ¿and since she was cut by the following season TPTB didn't think she could or would want to handle it. ¿

Good point.

JOYOFVGR

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POSTS: 11594

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 1:01 pm

^Yep. That was my theory as well!

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