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A Night In Sickbay

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this Dec. 26 2009, 9:39 am

I am not dodging anything. In NISB there is no sexual tension on T'Pol's part. Re Phlox: just because he has a degree in psychology doesn't make him infallible. He had no more to go on than that Archer had been irritated with T'Pol and that T'Pol and Archer are different genders and work closely together. It could be sexual tension or just the tension of working in tight quarters with someone with whom he doesn't always agree, and finds annoying in general, in stressful circumstances. Not to mention that Archer was sleep deprived, which led him to thoughts he didn't have before Phlox's suggestion. I saw absolutely no sexual tension from T'Pol towards Archer in the treadmill scene or any other scene in that episode.

As to sexual tension on T'Pol's part in Shadows, it's all in the eyes of the beholder. You see it (because you obviously want to or you wouldn't be going on about it in numerous threads) and I don't.

Edited to add: I agree with grigori and she explained it very well.

batouyukinawa

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POSTS: 336

Report this Dec. 28 2009, 4:40 am

I'm curious, have you ever been in a situation with sexual tension. You say I'm reading what I want to, yet I can't help but laugh at how naive you seem to sound. I almost wonder if you've even been in such a situation. Perhaps you could by chance admit that there may be a possibility I am able to read people better then you? I'm just saying possibly. Maybe not; however I know that what I see is not subjective. Sorry Darlin, but I get woman because I know how to read their intentions. I've been very modest in my approach, but perhaps I should be a little more crass. T'pol in SOP gave Archer the same look as many woman have gave me just before they invited me to their place. SO you can argue that there Darlin; however, I must take in my own experience and appeal to the notion I know; not think what I am talking about. You don't need to believe what I say, but you can at least consider there's a chance I know exactly what I'm talking about.

On a side note...FOR THE LAST TIME, I have what (some would call) a social life. I have more to worry about, then what could have been in a TV show. I don't care if A&T or T&T ever got together. If you must know, I simply like to argue. I treat rhetoric as a hobby, and a pass time. I think it's kinda funny how some of you get bent out of shape about others opinions. So many of you clearly make emotional appeals; which mind you would be torn apart in mere seconds if this were any kind of official debate. I watch TV shows, and movies in a very objective way. I always have. I always will. Unless you people start making your points based off relevance and not pure opinion, this is simply just a waste of time. Grigori actually does this, so I'm not including her/him; but the rest of you seriously need to start making points instead of just expressing your opinions. Opinions are only worthwhile when you back them up with substance. No one with an above average intellect expects to hear baseless opinions.

Actually now that I think about it Grigori is the only person on this thread that I have ever enjoyed debating with. Because he/she actually defends her/his claims. If you ever want to talk one on one Grigori just let me know. :)

grigori

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Report this Dec. 28 2009, 5:48 pm

hi batou--thanks for thinking I think clearly! :) I sort of made a career out of rhetoric, and teaching others the same.

I don't mean to waffle in the middle and don't really feel it necessary to mediate, but maybe my other buds (Mm included) have just demonstrated to me in earlier threads that they can build an argument with good examples--even change my mind about things. So I don't think it's accurate that they aren't backing up their claims with examples. I'm afraid what was explicit on screen is a big part of the supporting material.

It's interesting, the notion of emotional response to the Trip/T'Pol story--because I think that if the writers DID evoke an emotional response in the viewer, that's the proof that the relationship had more coherence than you give it credit for.

We all would have liked the arc to have hung together better, but that doesn't negate the emotional impact of the parts of the relationship they did show on screen.

I'm not sure what more I and others can do to agree with you but admit that the writers DID play with the idea of Archer/T'Pol romantically--but ditched it fairly early on, for the very reasons you've so eloquently outlined: it would NOT be appropriate for a Captain and First Officer, and neither would have ever let it happen.

And what's left is SUCH a tiny bit that's open to debate--though you and Mm have zeroed right in on it and managed to debate it! :) --but I think that gauging the emotional state that actors are trying to project in a given screen is SO hard to prove conclusively...Well, that's why I might seem a bit wussy to you when I back off and stick to what's definitely on screen.

It's okay to have your own interpretation in those areas you can't prove. But if you can't prove it, Mm sure can't "dis"prove it. That seems to be where the discussion lies at the moment... :)

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this Dec. 28 2009, 8:09 pm

Quote (batouyukinawa @ Dec. 28 2009, 4:40 am)
I'm curious, have you ever been in a situation with sexual tension. You say I'm reading what I want to, yet I can't help but laugh at how naive you seem to sound. I almost wonder if you've even been in such a situation. Perhaps you could by chance admit that there may be a possibility I am able to read people better then you? I'm just saying possibly. Maybe not; however I know that what I see is not subjective. Sorry Darlin, but I get woman because I know how to read their intentions. I've been very modest in my approach, but perhaps I should be a little more crass. T'pol in SOP gave Archer the same look as many woman have gave me just before they invited me to their place. SO you can argue that there Darlin; however, I must take in my own experience and appeal to the notion I know; not think what I am talking about. You don't need to believe what I say, but you can at least consider there's a chance I know exactly what I'm talking about.

On a side note...FOR THE LAST TIME, I have what (some would call) a social life. I have more to worry about, then what could have been in a TV show. I don't care if A&T or T&T ever got together. If you must know, I simply like to argue. I treat rhetoric as a hobby, and a pass time. I think it's kinda funny how some of you get bent out of shape about others opinions. So many of you clearly make emotional appeals; which mind you would be torn apart in mere seconds if this were any kind of official debate. I watch TV shows, and movies in a very objective way. I always have. I always will. Unless you people start making your points based off relevance and not pure opinion, this is simply just a waste of time. Grigori actually does this, so I'm not including her/him; but the rest of you seriously need to start making points instead of just expressing your opinions. Opinions are only worthwhile when you back them up with substance. No one with an above average intellect expects to hear baseless opinions.

Actually now that I think about it Grigori is the only person on this thread that I have ever enjoyed debating with. Because he/she actually defends her/his claims. If you ever want to talk one on one Grigori just let me know. :)

"Darlin" your post has to win the award for the Most Condescending and Self-important Post of the Week.

I don't know how old you are, but at my age, which I admit is fairly considerable, I have been in all types of situations - including sexually tense situations. I don't give a rat's a$$ what kind of look many women give you or whether you go to their places or not. What we're discussing in this thread is what is seen by us viewers and how we interpret it. It seems that you are pretty much alone in your interpretation of certain scenes in Enterprise. That's OK. You can believe anything you want to, but it's become tiresome when you pop into all different threads bringing up the same arguments over and over.

grigori is more tactful than the rest of us who are getting tired of your one track mind regarding T/T and T/A. I have given you reasons why I don't agree with you. Either you're not reading my posts for comprehension or you can't take seriously anyone disagreeing with you. ¿On that note, I will not reply to your posts any longer. No point in it.

batouyukinawa

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POSTS: 336

Report this Dec. 28 2009, 8:49 pm

You are getting a bit too emotional. You act as if this was a personal attack; yet I only responded through objective means. I was not trying to be self important. I instigated perhaps, but it was not my intent. The very prospect of so many to fuel such baseless accusations, through emotional attachments, is a pointless endeavor. I do not reduce myself to such petty shortcomings; so I regret that you felt this was my intent. Perhaps at times I let these general speakings broaden the proverbial blow to the intended target; though I suppose at times I feel my words are more clear then they actually are.

As for my stance, I only wished to use my own experience to ascertain a certain emotion observed from the T'pol character's facial expressions. I only persist this redundant behavior because this very notion is never really addressed; merely touched on. I argue that if one appeals to what is on screen as valid proof; then I see no reason why this too cannot be relevant as well. I believe the old saying goes "you can't eat your cake, and have it too". Essentially, you can't have it both ways correct?

Grigori, I cannot agree with your summation of the romance dynamic of Archer/Tpo'l. I believe this was clearly evident until the third season. This of course makes sense given that I have heard (as well many others) the top execs required a true romance. You are right in regards to A&T romance never a realistic prospect. However, this is only half true. I refer to CSI NY, in which Stella and Mac have a clear romantic dynamic; yet they are professional and create something more platonic because of their circumstances. This I believe mirrors A&T relation almost to the "T". The subterfuge of that dynamic ¿was forced into the writing through the wishes of top execs. I just watched a hour long interview with CT, where he adamantly voiced his displeasure with the way his character was handled; yet he also made evident his character was not essential to the show. Therefore any persistence on his part would have resulted in termination. I know T&T shippers want to believe it was intended; but look at the show from the beginning. I mean have you watched TOS???? Bones and Spock have a LOVE.....HATE......friendship. It mirrored T&T relation to the "T". The only difference is the TOS writing was consistent. I would say A&T relation to the end, was about the only consistent character relation in the whole entire series.

Middleman

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POSTS: 3657

Report this Dec. 28 2009, 8:50 pm

Quote (batouyukinawa @ Dec. 28 2009, 4:40 am)
If you ever want to talk one on one Grigori just let me know.

Grigori: Think long and hard before you respond to that one.

batouyukinawa

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POSTS: 336

Report this Dec. 29 2009, 4:34 am

Ahem! back to the topic at hand.

SignGuy77

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POSTS: 269

Report this Dec. 29 2009, 8:35 pm

This is the episode that made me stop watching Enterprise untill they reran it on Syfy Network. They teased an Archer/TPol story the week before and then it ended up being about the captain's dog. There was just a really brief scene that was teased as the main story. It made me mad that they bait and switched so I stopped watching it.

grigori

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POSTS: 10463

Report this Dec. 29 2009, 8:40 pm

Hi SignGuy--I like your signature quote!

This episode sorta turned me off--how many ways can you humiliate a ST Captain? It was awfully bizarre. But they had balls, seeing it through to the end.

Middleman

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POSTS: 3657

Report this Dec. 29 2009, 8:49 pm

Quote (Middleman @ Sep. 02 2009, 8:58 pm)
Sorry, but I thought that the episode made Archer look pathetic and it was an embarrassment to Bakula as actor. I'm surprised that Scott didn't beat Bragga's head in with a baseball bat after the episode aired. (The New York way of settling disputes)


Quote (Middleman @ Sep. 03 2009, 1:22 pm)
It's not entirely the Archer/T'Pol pairing (although I won't lie and say it didn't taint my opinion of the episode). I just disliked the whole premise of the story line.

1. His dog pisses on some civilization's cultural treasures and Archer blames them for his dog getting sick? And then he threatens to piss on them himself? Poor writing and out of character for the Captain of the Enterprise IMO.

2. Feeling the need to sleep in sick bay with his dog? A little out of character for a Star Ship captain; no?

3. Archer running around sickbay in his underwear (nothing wrong with the eye candy aspect) chasing a bat with a stick and a net? How's about a little dignity for the first Captain of the Star Ship Enterprise.

4. And naturally the whole "lusting after my first officer" wet dream was just tacky (no pun intended). Repressed sexual tension my butt.

Archer was not my favorite character in Enterprise but I think Bakula did a great job as Archer and I consider myself a fan of his since his QL days. He deserved much better story lines than ANiS. The Archer in seasons 3 and 4 were story lines I would expect for an actor of Bakula's stature.

I posted the above back in September and took a little heat for it (thankfully not too much) but that's how I feel. Now I see you feel similarly grigori.

Quote (SignGuy77 @ Dec. 29 2009, 8:35 pm)
This is the episode that made me stop watching Enterprise untill they reran it on Syfy Network. They teased an Archer/TPol story the week before and then it ended up being about the captain's dog. There was just a really brief scene that was teased as the main story. It made me mad that they bait and switched so I stopped watching it.

I am personally grateful that the Archer/T'Pol story line was just a tease and nothing more.

batouyukinawa

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POSTS: 336

Report this Dec. 29 2009, 8:59 pm

I'm sure you are MM.

onedotshort

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POSTS: 4

Report this Jul. 16 2010, 12:07 am

Haven't seen this episode yet (I think I even missed it when the show was aired!) but am getting it season by season on dvd...this one is something to look forward to! I only have season one so far. Which season is it in? I need to be forewarned to have a box of tissues nearby....if anything happens to Porthos...!!!!

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