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What makes TOS hard for people to like

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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POSTS: 2016

Report this Aug. 28 2009, 5:27 pm

Hi, there I don't get into the TOS thread too much these days mainly because it is usually filled with people complaining about the new movie....but I digress.

I thought of a serious topic for some of you to ponder.  My wife has watched all the Star Trek series with me, but even with the Remastered version, she refuses to get into the old series.  So I thought about this.  What do you as a TOS fan think that might turn off newer viewers.  Do you think it is the actors?  The SPFX, or the limted story lines?

I think a case could be made for all three but I want to hear your ideas first.

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 28 2009, 6:04 pm

Probably the fact that it's now over 40yrs old and our society has evolved so quickly that the "futuristic" Star Trek is actually behind us already in some regards. That said it does still hold up quite well, if you look at anything else made around the mid 60's nothing comes even close to looking as modern as TOS still does.

The actors are legends, and rightly so, the new remastered FX certainly breathe new life into the DVD's, although not everyone likes them.
As for the so called limited storylines, well even if you take into account some fantastic early movies, TOS was the birth of modern SCI-FI, you can't expect 21st century storytelling from the mid 20th. Remember that TOS was so groundbraking and good that it took 20yrs for anything worthy to replace it, with only Star Wars coming to the BIG Screen in between then keeping some of us going.

I can understand why someone would look at it now and be put off, but seriously it still has a lot to offer, especially to new Trek fans. I like every Trek show, and would say DS9 is the best of them all, but TOS will always be my favourite.

MrSpock44

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Report this Aug. 28 2009, 6:14 pm

I hear lots of people talk about "cheesy plots, acting, and effects".

Acting, I understand that, I don't really agree, but I understand it. I feel that acting is something that people are much too quick to limit or categorize into "good" and "bad". I know some people think that over-the-top acting is automatically a bad thing, but I disagree. There can be subtlety in over-the-top acting too. I guess some people appreciate actors like Charlton Heston, and some don't.

Effects, I understand that too, but personally I think it's a lame thing to dismiss an entire tv show for. There are the remastered versions for the space effects, and even if the sets aren't the best, is it really a big deal ?For the people who make a big deal out of effects (or even acting), they have a completely different mindset from me as far as what makes a great show or is entertaining.

The cheesy (or I suppose "limited" works as well) plots argument, I have to admit I don't get that one at all. I mean, the stories and characters (and character interactions) are classic and have helped to define the entire genre. If you hate sci-fi then I get it, but it drives me crazy when sci-fi fans complain about "bad stories". Star Trek started it all, every sci-fi show uses stories that Star Trek used first, and Star Trek almost always used those stories effectively. In most cases, I think the stories still work as effectively as they did in the 60's. Nope, don't understand this argument at all.

I suppose I don't really need to make a detailed defense of the original Star Trek here, but that's some of my thinking. "Cheesy" or "hammy" seem to be the type of words that are used most often. I understand it and I get people not loving the same shows I do, but I'll never completely understand those that have a genuine dislike for the show.

Mirrorgirl

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POSTS: 15692

Report this Aug. 28 2009, 10:19 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Aug. 29 2009, 7:27 am)
Hi, there I don't get into the TOS thread too much these days mainly because it is usually filled with people complaining about the new movie....but I digress.

I thought of a serious topic for some of you to ponder. ¿My wife has watched all the Star Trek series with me, but even with the Remastered version, she refuses to get into the old series. ¿So I thought about this. ¿What do you as a TOS fan think that might turn off newer viewers. ¿Do you think it is the actors? ¿The SPFX, or the limted story lines?

I think a case could be made for all three but I want to hear your ideas first.

The very fact that you make the statements above sort of proves that you don't visit the TOS boards.

Firstly this place is NOT filled with people complainig about the new movie, quite the opposite actually; you may have read one or two comments of folks who don't like it, but most TOS fans DID enjoy the new movie, so sorry wrong on that.

Secondly, if you had visited here more often you would know that the new movie has attracted many, many new fans to TOS, who now realize that it is a wonderful show and they understand that from a story point of view TOS is usually superior to other incarnations of Star Trek.

Folks who don't like TOS, do so for their own reasons and asking a bunch of folks who love the show, is unlikely to get you any further towards understanding why others don't like the show...perhaps you should ask this question elsewhere.

love_those_spacemen

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POSTS: 9453

Report this Aug. 28 2009, 11:56 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Aug. 28 2009, 2:27 pm)
Hi, there I don't get into the TOS thread too much these days mainly because it is usually filled with people complaining about the new movie....but I digress.

I thought of a serious topic for some of you to ponder.  My wife has watched all the Star Trek series with me, but even with the Remastered version, she refuses to get into the old series.  So I thought about this.  What do you as a TOS fan think that might turn off newer viewers.  Do you think it is the actors?  The SPFX, or the limted story lines?

I think a case could be made for all three but I want to hear your ideas first.

There were equally mixed reviews about the movie. If you had been around, you could have participated in the discussions. ;)

To give my two cents, it's not the actors. They're all obviously VERY good.

The limited story lines? Could you expound? Do you mean archetypal? Do you mean that they're not so specific as to pigeonhole the viewer into a single interpretation?

The effects... well, some people can't get beyond what things look like according to their preconceived notions and pavlovian expectations. I for one think they're well designed. But others may need more details filled in... in a way they think look "realistic".

TOS isn't everyone's cuppa. You can lead a horse...

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 29 2009, 12:35 am

but some aren't horse's.....they are jack a$$'es :p :laugh:

love_those_spacemen

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POSTS: 9453

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 12:46 am

Asses follow. ;) :laugh:

Unregistered_Guest

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Report this Aug. 29 2009, 5:10 am

As a gentleman, I cannot answer your query.  To do so would be to insult your wife.  :honorable:

Mirrorgirl

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POSTS: 15692

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 10:56 am

Quote (Unregistered_Guest @ Aug. 29 2009, 7:10 pm)
As a gentleman, I cannot answer your query. ¿To do so would be to insult your wife. ¿:honorable:

:laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2016

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 11:42 am

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Aug. 28 2009, 10:19 pm)
Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Aug. 29 2009, 7:27 am)
Hi, there I don't get into the TOS thread too much these days mainly because it is usually filled with people complaining about the new movie....but I digress.

I thought of a serious topic for some of you to ponder. ?My wife has watched all the Star Trek series with me, but even with the Remastered version, she refuses to get into the old series. ?So I thought about this. ?What do you as a TOS fan think that might turn off newer viewers. ?Do you think it is the actors? ?The SPFX, or the limted story lines?

I think a case could be made for all three but I want to hear your ideas first.

The very fact that you make the statements above sort of proves that you don't visit the TOS boards.

Firstly this place is NOT filled with people complainig about the new movie, quite the opposite actually; you may have read one or two comments of folks who don't like it, but most TOS fans DID enjoy the new movie, so sorry wrong on that.

Secondly, if you had visited here more often you would know that the new movie has attracted many, many new fans to TOS, who now realize that it is a wonderful show and they understand that from a story point of view TOS is usually superior to other incarnations of Star Trek.

Folks who don't like TOS, do so for their own reasons and asking a bunch of folks who love the show, is unlikely to get you any further towards understanding why others don't like the show...perhaps you should ask this question elsewhere.

Ok...guess you are not on my friends list...

When I came in here around the time the new movie came out, there were tons of threads that said the new movie sucked. ¿I had tried to change the subject with other threads and it didn't work. ¿

Basically what I would like to know is why does that give you the justification of being rude to someone asking a legitimate question? ¿I'm not mad but your anger is misdirected.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2016

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 11:43 am

Quote (Unregistered_Guest @ Aug. 29 2009, 5:10 am)
As a gentleman, I cannot answer your query. ¿To do so would be to insult your wife. ¿:honorable:

thanks No No

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2016

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 11:47 am

These are not my words, people who I know who don't like the old series say that these are some of the issues they have a problem with.  But in any case thanks for nothing guess that is why I tend to not come in here some of you people are pricks, honestly.

Mirrorgirl

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15692

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 12:06 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Aug. 30 2009, 1:42 am)
Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Aug. 28 2009, 10:19 pm)
Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Aug. 29 2009, 7:27 am)
Hi, there I don't get into the TOS thread too much these days mainly because it is usually filled with people complaining about the new movie....but I digress.

I thought of a serious topic for some of you to ponder. ?My wife has watched all the Star Trek series with me, but even with the Remastered version, she refuses to get into the old series. ?So I thought about this. ?What do you as a TOS fan think that might turn off newer viewers. ?Do you think it is the actors? ?The SPFX, or the limted story lines?

I think a case could be made for all three but I want to hear your ideas first.

The very fact that you make the statements above sort of proves that you don't visit the TOS boards.

Firstly this place is NOT filled with people complainig about the new movie, quite the opposite actually; you may have read one or two comments of folks who don't like it, but most TOS fans DID enjoy the new movie, so sorry wrong on that.

Secondly, if you had visited here more often you would know that the new movie has attracted many, many new fans to TOS, who now realize that it is a wonderful show and they understand that from a story point of view TOS is usually superior to other incarnations of Star Trek.

Folks who don't like TOS, do so for their own reasons and asking a bunch of folks who love the show, is unlikely to get you any further towards understanding why others don't like the show...perhaps you should ask this question elsewhere.

Ok...guess you are not on my friends list...

When I came in here around the time the new movie came out, there were tons of threads that said the new movie sucked. ?I had tried to change the subject with other threads and it didn't work. ?

Basically what I would like to know is why does that give you the justification of being rude to someone asking a legitimate question? ?I'm not mad but your anger is misdirected.

I don't know you, so it is safe to say that I cannot know if we are 'friends' or not.

The way your question was framed was what I had problems with. You see you came here after a long absence and gave the option of whether we think the acting, effects or stories in TOS are at fault for someone (in this case your wife) not liking TOS. I am unable to agree that any of these factors are at fault. Millions of other like TOS and don't have problems with any of the factors you mentioned.

The way you phrased your enquiry felt to me (and perhaps others) as trolling for responses...it's like asking the question "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" To answer either yes or no presupposes that one agrees with your original assertion, in this case that the acting is bad, that the stories are weak or that sfx in some way below standard, none of which I can agree with.

What does your wife say she does not like TOS? Perhaps you could tell us, then we would all know.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2016

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 12:15 pm

I think the problem at hand is that you have already written me off as a troll because you misunderstood my question.  I thought the question was completely clear and not hard to understand at all.  Why do some people not like the TOS, and I gave examples of of answers that I heard and also gave the opportunity for you to respond as well because I was genuinely interested in what people who watch TOS more than other series thought.  But I have to say now that we are done...have a nice life.

love_those_spacemen

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POSTS: 9453

Report this Aug. 29 2009, 12:18 pm

Redshirt, I answered your post and requested more dialog... and you ignored it.

As one of the people who didn't care for the new film (as a whole), I began an open discussion on this forum as to why. I also opened a thread discussing its positive attributes. I don't recall anyone here simply saying "it sucked", or any overwhelming majority of complainants you say you noticed.

If the words regarding TOS are not yours, then your friends and family have answered your questions about why they don't like it. If you wish to discuss the movie, then do so. What did you like about it?

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