DamarLivesAgain GROUP: Members POSTS: 759  |
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Aug. 31 2009, 5:14 pm
Now THIS is entertainment!
You guys do this everyday?
Cause now I am a fan again!
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JOYOFVGR GROUP: Members POSTS: 11587 |
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Aug. 31 2009, 5:17 pm
| Quote (DamarLivesAgain @ Aug. 31 2009, 5:14 pm) | Now THIS is entertainment!
You guys do this everyday?
Cause now I am a fan again! |
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Lynx677 GROUP: Members POSTS: 7851 |
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Aug. 31 2009, 5:34 pm
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 30 2009, 4:06 pm) | | Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 2:47 pm) | | I think it is bad treatment when they allow everyone else to stay and "get their contract "re-newed" while one is singled out like "sorry, we don't want you here anymore". |
Now I think your being unrealistic.
The contract was for 3 years with an option for more.
Even I could see by the end of season 1 that the character of "Kes" was not catching on or being developed well.
Season 2 wasnt much better for her.The actress should have fought for more development.
Just like any job, you have to find a way to stand out, to impress yourself apon your bosses and others....in this case those others would have been the fans.
I'm 100% positive that if the fans liked her in greater numbers she would not have been let go. |
If the fans had had the final word, then Neelix would have been the one they dumped. He was criticized a lot during those days before the "changes", not as much as Wes Crusher but almost. Otherwise there were some arguing about Janeway too. A lot of fans liked her, some didn't. Kim was criticized from time to time for being rather bland. Kes was hardly mentioned. So the decision to dump Kes had nothing to do with the opinion of the fans. That those in charge didn't give a d**n about the fans showed up later when they insulted the Kes fans with "Fury" and the J/C-ers with the Chakotay-Seven thing in "Endgame". Why should the actress "have fought for more development"? Maybe she was happy with the character? Besides that, Beltran tried to fight for his character and they totally ignored him. If Kes wasn't "developed well, then the writers were to blame for that. In that case they weren't doing their job. Personally I was happy with the charcter in seasons 1,2 and 3. OK, some things could have been done better but it was the same for the other characters. I guess the reasons for Kes being dumped were: The actress wasn't in "People's" magazine. The actress didn't live up to Braga's catsuit dreams. The actress didn't belong to any ethnic minority. Two good-looking blondes were one too many. Greed from those in charge. |
Josh_Lyman GROUP: Members POSTS: 5520 |
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Aug. 31 2009, 6:39 pm
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 30 2009, 6:34 pm) | I guess the reasons for Kes being dumped were:
The actress wasn't in "People's" magazine.
The actress didn't live up to Braga's catsuit dreams.
The actress didn't belong to any ethnic minority.
Two good-looking blondes were one too many.
Greed from those in charge. |
No, the reason she was dumped is because she brought nothing to the show. |
teya1020 GROUP: Members POSTS: 2763 |
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Aug. 31 2009, 9:50 pm
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 5:34 pm) | | The actress didn't belong to any ethnic minority. |
Oh, dear, God... And Lynx steps right into American racial issues without a clue what they are. There was one female regular on the show who was a member of an ethnic minority--and that would be Roxann. I'd edge out of that argument if I were you, Lynx. You're stepping into dangerous territory here. But if you insist, please make your case as to how Jennifer suffered racial discrimination--bearing in mind that 95 percent of the performers we see on American TV are... White. |
stovokor2000 GROUP: Members POSTS: 2683 |
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Aug. 31 2009, 9:52 pm
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 5:34 pm) | If the fans had had the final word, then Neelix would have been the one they dumped.
He was criticized a lot during those days before the "changes", not as much as Wes Crusher but almost. |
I didnt say fans had the final word but the show works by catering to fans as best as possible. And I doubt that Nelix would have been the one dropped.As much as people were Oh Noing about him at least they were talking,there was interest.Kes lacked that much. I remember at a few Trek conventions there were different tables discussing which characters were more disliked on Voyager....Kim and Kes received the least support. And UPN [the network that ran the show] held on air "fan poles" on favorite Voyager character and again Kim and Kes received the least votes. And BTW, being criticized isint always a bad things. I remember one of the poles I partook in and it had questions like..... "what do you like about this character" and "what dont you like about that character" and again in both Kes and Kim got the least comments. So being criticized probably helped develope Nelix more then it hurt him in the long run. Various Sci-fi mags either held similar poles or reported on poles conducted at conventions on fav Voyager character and again Kim and Kes got the least votes. Now I know we dont know each other well but at least you know I've been fair with you and with this topic. But you got to face facts.....Kes was not well liked in comparison to the other characters. Now if you ask me....I would have gotten rid of Kim.I felt that at least Kes was a bit interested. But they chose otherwise.But they still got rid of one of the least popular characters. And if someone had to go logic dictates its going to be one of the weak characters. | Quote |
Why should the actress "have fought for more development"? Maybe she was happy with the character? |
Are you kidding me??? To insure that her character would be liked. | Quote | | If Kes wasn't "developed well, then the writers were to blame for that. In that case they weren't doing their job. |
Its a 2 way street. | Quote | | The actress didn't live up to Braga's catsuit dreams. |
She could have then......she was pretty hot at the time. | Quote |
Two good-looking blondes were one too many. |
Could be. |
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Josh_Lyman GROUP: Members POSTS: 5520 |
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Sep. 01 2009, 6:06 am
| Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 30 2009, 10:50 pm) | But if you insist, please make your case as to how Jennifer suffered racial discrimination--bearing in mind that 95 percent of the performers we see on American TV are...
White. |
I don't believe that is exactly true. I will say, however, that 95% of the people who watch Star Trek are white. I'm saying this with no source. It is just my opinion. |
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Sep. 01 2009, 9:26 am
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 5:34 pm) | | Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 30 2009, 4:06 pm) | | Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 2:47 pm) | | I think it is bad treatment when they allow everyone else to stay and "get their contract "re-newed" while one is singled out like "sorry, we don't want you here anymore". |
Now I think your being unrealistic.
The contract was for 3 years with an option for more.
Even I could see by the end of season 1 that the character of "Kes" was not catching on or being developed well.
Season 2 wasnt much better for her.The actress should have fought for more development.
Just like any job, you have to find a way to stand out, to impress yourself apon your bosses and others....in this case those others would have been the fans.
I'm 100% positive that if the fans liked her in greater numbers she would not have been let go. |
If the fans had had the final word, then Neelix would have been the one they dumped.
He was criticized a lot during those days before the "changes", not as much as Wes Crusher but almost.
Otherwise there were some arguing about Janeway too. A lot of fans liked her, some didn't. Kim was criticized from time to time for being rather bland.
Kes was hardly mentioned.
So the decision to dump Kes had nothing to do with the opinion of the fans. That those in charge didn't give a d**n about the fans showed up later when they insulted the Kes fans with "Fury" and the J/C-ers with the Chakotay-Seven thing in "Endgame".
Why should the actress "have fought for more development"? Maybe she was happy with the character?
Besides that, Beltran tried to fight for his character and they totally ignored him.
If Kes wasn't "developed well, then the writers were to blame for that. In that case they weren't doing their job.
Personally I was happy with the charcter in seasons 1,2 and 3. OK, some things could have been done better but it was the same for the other characters.
I guess the reasons for Kes being dumped were:
The actress wasn't in "People's" magazine.
The actress didn't live up to Braga's catsuit dreams.
The actress didn't belong to any ethnic minority.
Two good-looking blondes were one too many.
Greed from those in charge. |
Who cares, get over it. This post has little to nothing to do with Kes or Jen Lien. The title of the post is "Rick Berman on Voyager" not "Lynx' Conspiracy Theories on the Firing of Jen Lien." |
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Lynx677 GROUP: Members POSTS: 7851 |
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Sep. 01 2009, 11:57 am
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| | | | | | | | border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 30 2009, 10:52 pm) | > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 5:34 pm)> id="QUOTE">If the fans had had the final word, then Neelix would have been the one they dumped.
He was criticized a lot during those days before the "changes", not as much as Wes Crusher but almost.
I didnt say fans had the final word but the show works by catering to fans as best as possible.
And I doubt that Nelix would have been the one dropped.As much as people were Oh Noing about him at least they were talking,there was interest.Kes lacked that much.
I remember at a few Trek conventions there were different tables discussing which characters were more disliked on Voyager....Kim and Kes received the least support.
And UPN [the network that ran the show] held on air "fan poles" on favorite Voyager character and again Kim and Kes received the least votes.
And BTW, being criticized isint always a bad things.
I remember one of the poles I partook in and it had questions like.....
"what do you like about this character" and "what dont you like about that character" and again in both Kes and Kim got the least comments.
So being criticized probably helped develope Nelix more then it hurt him in the long run.
Various Sci-fi mags either held similar poles or reported on poles conducted at conventions on fav Voyager character and again Kim and Kes got the least votes.
Now I know we dont know each other well but at least you know I've been fair with you and with this topic.
But you got to face facts.....Kes was not well liked in comparison to the other characters.
Now if you ask me....I would have gotten rid of Kim.I felt that at least Kes was a bit interested.
But they chose otherwise.But they still got rid of one of the least popular characters.
And if someone had to go logic dictates its going to be one of the weak characters.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">
Why should the actress "have fought for more development"? Maybe she was happy with the character?
Are you kidding me???
To insure that her character would be liked.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">If Kes wasn't "developed well, then the writers were to blame for that. In that case they weren't doing their job.
Its a 2 way street.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">The actress didn't live up to Braga's catsuit dreams.
She could have then......she was pretty hot at the time.  |
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Josh_Lyman GROUP: Members POSTS: 5520 |
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Sep. 01 2009, 1:12 pm
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 12:57 pm) | | Even if Kes wasn't ¿everybody's favorite, it was still wrong to dump her. |
No it wasn't. |
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exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Sep. 01 2009, 6:00 pm
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| | | | | | | | | | border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 01 2009, 11:57 am) | > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 30 2009, 10:52 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 31 2009, 5:34 pm)> id="QUOTE">If the fans had had the final word, then Neelix would have been the one they dumped.
He was criticized a lot during those days before the "changes", not as much as Wes Crusher but almost.
I didnt say fans had the final word but the show works by catering to fans as best as possible.
And I doubt that Nelix would have been the one dropped.As much as people were Oh Noing about him at least they were talking,there was interest.Kes lacked that much.
I remember at a few Trek conventions there were different tables discussing which characters were more disliked on Voyager....Kim and Kes received the least support.
And UPN [the network that ran the show] held on air "fan poles" on favorite Voyager character and again Kim and Kes received the least votes.
And BTW, being criticized isint always a bad things.
I remember one of the poles I partook in and it had questions like.....
"what do you like about this character" and "what dont you like about that character" and again in both Kes and Kim got the least comments.
So being criticized probably helped develope Nelix more then it hurt him in the long run.
Various Sci-fi mags either held similar poles or reported on poles conducted at conventions on fav Voyager character and again Kim and Kes got the least votes.
Now I know we dont know each other well but at least you know I've been fair with you and with this topic.
But you got to face facts.....Kes was not well liked in comparison to the other characters.
Now if you ask me....I would have gotten rid of Kim.I felt that at least Kes was a bit interested.
But they chose otherwise.But they still got rid of one of the least popular characters.
And if someone had to go logic dictates its going to be one of the weak characters.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">
Why should the actress "have fought for more development"? Maybe she was happy with the character?
Are you kidding me???
To insure that her character would be liked.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">If Kes wasn't "developed well, then the writers were to blame for that. In that case they weren't doing their job.
Its a 2 way street.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">The actress didn't live up to Braga's catsuit dreams.
She could have then......she was pretty hot at the time.
Sounds like you're just angry all the time. |
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stovokor2000 GROUP: Members POSTS: 2683 |
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Sep. 02 2009, 1:45 am
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 01 2009, 11:57 am) | | Even if Kes wasn't ¿everybody's favorite, it was still wrong to dump her. |
As I said..... someone had to go.They had 2 weak characters to chose from, Kim or Kes. They chose Kes. | Quote | | Kes had a lot of fans. |
All I can say about them is....Where were they when UPN held their "on air poles"???? | Quote | | As for now, I'm actually more p***ed off with those in charge of the Voyager Relaunch books. They have no actors, contracts or wages which might disturb their work, still they continue with the character destruction in an even worse way than Berman ad his gang did. |
Different debate. True. |
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Lynx677 GROUP: Members POSTS: 7851 |
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Sep. 02 2009, 4:46 pm
^^
Oh please, how fun is it to see one's favorite characters being killed off? Wasn't it enough that they kicked out the character in the first place?
Not to mention that the lifespan was not an issue, it could have been prolonged with some will, skill and imagination.
Besides that, Kes wasn't kicked out for being a weak character. In that case there would be more Trek characters kicked out after half of the series. It was all about rotten politics.
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Josh_Lyman GROUP: Members POSTS: 5520 |
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Sep. 02 2009, 6:26 pm
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 01 2009, 5:46 pm) | | Besides that, Kes wasn't kicked out for being a weak character. In that case there would be more Trek characters kicked out after half of the series. It was all about rotten politics. |
Proof? |
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stovokor2000 GROUP: Members POSTS: 2683 |
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Sep. 02 2009, 6:43 pm
| Quote (Lynx677 @ Sep. 02 2009, 4:46 pm) | ^^
Oh please, how fun is it to see one's favorite characters being killed off? Wasn't it enough that they kicked out the character in the first place?
Not to mention that the lifespan was not an issue, it could have been prolonged with some will, skill and imagination. |
Your not getting it. I didnt want them to come up with some magic cure to the life span issue. Trek stories almost always find a way to tell a "happy story". When we were first introduced to Kes I was looking froward to the day she would die.I felt that the life span issue should be an issue they all worked hard to fix but would ultimately fail. | Quote | | Besides that, Kes wasn't kicked out for being a weak character. In that case there would be more Trek characters kicked out after half of the series. It was all about rotten politics. |
Call it a combination of both but dont deny the facts. Kes was a weak character.....she wasnt the only one on Voyager but she was one of the least liked. |
