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Rick Berman on VOY

teya1020

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POSTS: 2763

Report this Sep. 12 2009, 2:48 pm

Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:24 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:21 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 11 2009, 8:35 pm)
That's fine, but not everyone watches a show from the very beginning. Since they changed it to get a new audience I thought they should somehow remind us of what was going on.

To be honest, BSG was written the way I thought Voyager should have been done, only BSG was a little too dark. I still need to see DS9 to know for sure though. I understand that was a darker show.

The thing is, you couldn't tune in to season 3 of BSG and know what was going on. You could eventually have a clue, but you'd miss the entire arc of the initial Cylon attacks, why they were running, what the hell was going on between Lee & his father...

A friend of mine tried--she tuned in to one episode in season 3 and was clueless, so she gave up. Wasn't till this summer that she borrowed all 4 seasons from me and was hooked from the first episode.

Voyager dropped the Maquis issue in season 1--long before adding Seven.

Actually, I skipped right to season two and I got the jist of it. Of course there were details I missed and had to catch up with, but at least I knew the premise of the show just by the opening credits. BSG also ran 8 minute summaries on cable that you could get free on demand. Those were also very helpful.

Well, season 3 starts with the occupation, so you don't know a thing about what went before.

And I daresay there were many details not covered in the opening credits that were important to the show.

JOYOFVGR

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11590

Report this Sep. 12 2009, 4:48 pm

Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:48 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:24 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:21 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 11 2009, 8:35 pm)
That's fine, but not everyone watches a show from the very beginning. Since they changed it to get a new audience I thought they should somehow remind us of what was going on.

To be honest, BSG was written the way I thought Voyager should have been done, only BSG was a little too dark. I still need to see DS9 to know for sure though. I understand that was a darker show.

The thing is, you couldn't tune in to season 3 of BSG and know what was going on. You could eventually have a clue, but you'd miss the entire arc of the initial Cylon attacks, why they were running, what the hell was going on between Lee & his father...

A friend of mine tried--she tuned in to one episode in season 3 and was clueless, so she gave up. Wasn't till this summer that she borrowed all 4 seasons from me and was hooked from the first episode.

Voyager dropped the Maquis issue in season 1--long before adding Seven.

Actually, I skipped right to season two and I got the jist of it. Of course there were details I missed and had to catch up with, but at least I knew the premise of the show just by the opening credits. BSG also ran 8 minute summaries on cable that you could get free on demand. Those were also very helpful.

Well, season 3 starts with the occupation, so you don't know a thing about what went before.

And I daresay there were many details not covered in the opening credits that were important to the show.

Actually, they always did a recap, so you knew about how the occupation occurred. I know this because I was renting the dvd's from blockbuster at the time and got some of them out of order. There was a season 2.5 that I didn't know about. So yeah, it was still possible to follow. I circled back and watched the missed episodes and really didn't miss all that many details. :)

teya1020

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2763

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 5:10 pm

Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 12 2009, 4:48 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:48 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:24 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:21 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 11 2009, 8:35 pm)
That's fine, but not everyone watches a show from the very beginning. Since they changed it to get a new audience I thought they should somehow remind us of what was going on.

To be honest, BSG was written the way I thought Voyager should have been done, only BSG was a little too dark. I still need to see DS9 to know for sure though. I understand that was a darker show.

The thing is, you couldn't tune in to season 3 of BSG and know what was going on. You could eventually have a clue, but you'd miss the entire arc of the initial Cylon attacks, why they were running, what the hell was going on between Lee & his father...

A friend of mine tried--she tuned in to one episode in season 3 and was clueless, so she gave up. Wasn't till this summer that she borrowed all 4 seasons from me and was hooked from the first episode.

Voyager dropped the Maquis issue in season 1--long before adding Seven.

Actually, I skipped right to season two and I got the jist of it. Of course there were details I missed and had to catch up with, but at least I knew the premise of the show just by the opening credits. BSG also ran 8 minute summaries on cable that you could get free on demand. Those were also very helpful.

Well, season 3 starts with the occupation, so you don't know a thing about what went before.

And I daresay there were many details not covered in the opening credits that were important to the show.

Actually, they always did a recap, so you knew about how the occupation occurred. I know this because I was renting the dvd's from blockbuster at the time and got some of them out of order. There was a season 2.5 that I didn't know about. So yeah, it was still possible to follow. I circled back and watched the missed episodes and really didn't miss all that many details. :)

Well, I disagree. I know perfectly intelligent people who tuned in to one episode in the middle of a season and couldn't pick it up.

And I daresay there were more subtle nuances of plot that would be totally missed were one to simply start in the middle. This may not be as important to you as to me.

I don't agree with the idea of recapping the entire 3 seasons of Voyager at the beginning of season 4, though. Voyager wasn't a serialized show and everything you needed to know to follow it from season 4 out was provided in "Scorpion."

JOYOFVGR

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11590

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 6:15 pm

Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 13 2009, 5:10 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 12 2009, 4:48 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:48 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:24 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Sep. 12 2009, 2:21 pm)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 11 2009, 8:35 pm)
That's fine, but not everyone watches a show from the very beginning. Since they changed it to get a new audience I thought they should somehow remind us of what was going on.

To be honest, BSG was written the way I thought Voyager should have been done, only BSG was a little too dark. I still need to see DS9 to know for sure though. I understand that was a darker show.

The thing is, you couldn't tune in to season 3 of BSG and know what was going on. You could eventually have a clue, but you'd miss the entire arc of the initial Cylon attacks, why they were running, what the hell was going on between Lee & his father...

A friend of mine tried--she tuned in to one episode in season 3 and was clueless, so she gave up. Wasn't till this summer that she borrowed all 4 seasons from me and was hooked from the first episode.

Voyager dropped the Maquis issue in season 1--long before adding Seven.

Actually, I skipped right to season two and I got the jist of it. Of course there were details I missed and had to catch up with, but at least I knew the premise of the show just by the opening credits. BSG also ran 8 minute summaries on cable that you could get free on demand. Those were also very helpful.

Well, season 3 starts with the occupation, so you don't know a thing about what went before.

And I daresay there were many details not covered in the opening credits that were important to the show.

Actually, they always did a recap, so you knew about how the occupation occurred. I know this because I was renting the dvd's from blockbuster at the time and got some of them out of order. There was a season 2.5 that I didn't know about. So yeah, it was still possible to follow. I circled back and watched the missed episodes and really didn't miss all that many details. :)

Well, I disagree. I know perfectly intelligent people who tuned in to one episode in the middle of a season and couldn't pick it up.

And I daresay there were more subtle nuances of plot that would be totally missed were one to simply start in the middle. This may not be as important to you as to me.

I don't agree with the idea of recapping the entire 3 seasons of Voyager at the beginning of season 4, though. Voyager wasn't a serialized show and everything you needed to know to follow it from season 4 out was provided in "Scorpion."

Basically, yes. But it would have been helpful if they did a recap or if the opening credits had the story of how they ended up in the Delta Quadrant. It might have actually made a difference to me as a new viewer, believe it or not. When I first saw Voyager I thought it was simply an imitation of TNG. I think if I had at least known the premise I would have been more interested in it and stuck with it, that's all. I really didn't pay too much attention to Voyager until it aired on Spike and saw it from the beginning.

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Sep. 13 2009, 7:24 pm

Quote (Narada @ Sep. 11 2009, 8:33 pm)
These are both very good comments thank you for sharing. I wish to think this through for more time. I also feel they did a good job as they could and you cannot always please everyone. I like the Enterprise show and also Voyager along with the other Star Trek shows.

I'm just glad that someone here was willing to talk about the actual topic itself.   I thank you greatly for that. :D

Arachpinapitofol

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POSTS: 3227

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 1:31 pm

More of Berman's thoughts from Memory Alpha:

Despite the general prosperity of Deep Space Nine, Paramount pressured Berman for yet another television series. So close to the end of TNG and running alongside DS9, Berman admitted in a 2006 interview that he felt many aspects of what came to be Star Trek: Voyager, unfortunately, didn't work.

"I think a lot of things did work. It was the first attempt to do a Star Trek show on a starship that was not the Enterprise. It was a show that was pushed on the public a little too quickly, which was difficult. It was very difficult to have a female lead who could have the authority of a Starfleet captain and simultaneously have the nurturing feminine qualities that we were all after. It was a difficult thing to do. I think that may have been part of the motivation for bringing in Jeri Ryan... It was something we tried to do, something I think we did successfully, but not as successfully as we'd hoped. I think there may have been a problem with the whole idea of throwing the ship to the other side of the galaxy, because I think Star Trek, at its soul, is a show about heading outward into new places and discovering new things, and this was a show about heading back and trying to find our way home. We hoped that the amount of adventure and exploration would be the same on our journey back home, but I think something was lost on their way home."
Yet again citing studio pressure for a quickened turn-out pace, Berman said:

"I again asked them for a little breathing room, that maybe it wasn't a good idea to slap a new show on the air in what was going to be the third season of Deep Space Nine. Maybe we needed to separate them a little bit. It was very clear to me they wanted another show...In a very polite and abstract way I was told that if I refused to do it, they respected that, but that they'd find someone else who would..."

I definitely think Voyager could have been better, and I would be so quick to blame anyone about why it failed, except maybe the studio for not giving Berman & co. enough time to develop the concept. I think Kes had good stories during the first three seasons, but pretty much had nowhere to go after that. Still, they could have simply made her a reucrring guest character.

kludge77

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POSTS: 1477

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 3:24 pm

Quote (Arachpinapitofol @ Sep. 17 2009, 1:31 pm)
snip...

I definitely think Voyager could have been better, and I would be so quick to blame anyone about why it failed, ...snip

Voyager failed? Did I miss something?

How can the last good series of a franchise be considered a failure? In my mind the only ST failure was the 4 year run of Enterprise. Otherwise TNG, DS9 & VOY were all huge successes!

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 3:36 pm

Quote (kludge77 @ Sep. 17 2009, 3:24 pm)
Quote (Arachpinapitofol @ Sep. 17 2009, 1:31 pm)
snip...

I definitely think Voyager could have been better, and I would be so quick to blame anyone about why it failed, ...snip

Voyager failed? Did I miss something?

How can the last good series of a franchise be considered a failure? In my mind the only ST failure was the 4 year run of Enterprise. Otherwise TNG, DS9 & VOY were all huge successes!

Agreed.

It ran a full 7 years, got merchendising & sydication rights.
So yes, it was a success.

Josh_Lyman

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POSTS: 5520

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 6:04 pm

Quote (kludge77 @ Sep. 16 2009, 4:24 pm)
Quote (Arachpinapitofol @ Sep. 17 2009, 1:31 pm)
snip...

I definitely think Voyager could have been better, and I would be so quick to blame anyone about why it failed, ...snip

Voyager failed? Did I miss something?

How can the last good series of a franchise be considered a failure? In my mind the only ST failure was the 4 year run of Enterprise. Otherwise TNG, DS9 & VOY were all huge successes!

I consider ENT a success as well. I think a show is a failure if it lasts only one season or less.

JOYOFVGR

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POSTS: 11590

Report this Sep. 17 2009, 6:17 pm

That's not a bad way to look at it. After all TOS got cancelled after only 4 seasons too. Was it a failure? ;)

brcarthey

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Report this Sep. 17 2009, 9:56 pm

Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 17 2009, 6:17 pm)
That's not a bad way to look at it. After all TOS got cancelled after only 4 seasons too. Was it a failure? ;)

actually, TOS only lasted 3 seasons.

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Sep. 18 2009, 8:58 am

Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 17 2009, 6:17 pm)
That's not a bad way to look at it. After all TOS got cancelled after only 4 seasons too. Was it a failure? ;)

Yes, as far as the studio was concerned, they both were.

Trek is only alive today due to a fanatical cult following that made Capt. Kirk an icon due to guess what?  Star Trek Conventions.  When someone took the idea of having tons of nerds that loved the show, then gathering them all in one place to share their love of it, that's when people started to notice.  People wearing Spock ears were laughed at but many wanted to see what made us embrace this show with such fevered loyality.  So Trek returns in rerun and the cult following grew.  Now Star Trek was a house hold name and Capt. Kirk became known around the world.

JOYOFVGR

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POSTS: 11590

Report this Sep. 18 2009, 9:06 am

Quote (exodus201 @ Sep. 18 2009, 8:58 am)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 17 2009, 6:17 pm)
That's not a bad way to look at it. After all TOS got cancelled after only 4 seasons too. Was it a failure? ;)

Yes, as far as the studio was concerned, they both were.

Trek is only alive today due to a fanatical cult following that made Capt. Kirk an icon due to guess what? ¿Star Trek Conventions. ¿When someone took the idea of having tons of nerds that loved the show, then gathering them all in one place to share their love of it, that's when people started to notice. ¿People wearing Spock ears were laughed at but many wanted to see what made us embrace this show with such fevered loyality. ¿So Trek returns in rerun and the cult following grew. ¿Now Star Trek was a house hold name and Capt. Kirk became known around the world.

Right, but that didn't mean it wasn't good, and after people took notice and they made the movies, we got 3 more series, now another blockbuster that's in it's second run in the movie theatres. If only I could "fail" like that!

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Sep. 18 2009, 9:09 am

Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 18 2009, 9:06 am)
Quote (exodus201 @ Sep. 18 2009, 8:58 am)
Quote (JOYOFVGR @ Sep. 17 2009, 6:17 pm)
That's not a bad way to look at it. After all TOS got cancelled after only 4 seasons too. Was it a failure? ;)

Yes, as far as the studio was concerned, they both were.

Trek is only alive today due to a fanatical cult following that made Capt. Kirk an icon due to guess what? ?Star Trek Conventions. ?When someone took the idea of having tons of nerds that loved the show, then gathering them all in one place to share their love of it, that's when people started to notice. ?People wearing Spock ears were laughed at but many wanted to see what made us embrace this show with such fevered loyality. ?So Trek returns in rerun and the cult following grew. ?Now Star Trek was a house hold name and Capt. Kirk became known around the world.

Right, but that didn't mean it wasn't good, and after people took notice and they made the movies, we got 3 more series, now another blockbuster that's in it's second run in the movie theatres. If only I could "fail" like that!

You and me both, honey! :laugh:

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