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Rick Berman on VOY

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 12:47 pm

From an interview:  

http://trekmovie.com/2009....history


Quote

Tim Russ was second choice for Geordi and so Berman was anxious to hire him

Berman on character of Kes "it just didn¿t work, her character became superfluous" so she was written out


Waiting for the inevitable Kes argument...

Quote

Bringing on Jeri Ryan as 7 of 9 in response to studio concern about ratings slippage and requirement to "spice things up"

Success of Jeri Ryan "did cause problems" with Kate Mulgrew and there "was a little antagonism" between the actresses

High use of Holodeck on Voyager was somewhat due to writers being "anxious" to use again device after DS9, where Quark¿s holosuites were "wh!!!houses" with "nasty purposes"

For final episode they "considered everything" including not returning to Earth, 7 of 9 dying, Janeway dying and more

Berman¿s final assessment on if the "ship headed home" premise was right one to do: "It was difficult. I think it was a good idea to go in that direction, but there is something about venturing outward and trying to get back home that are dramatically different from one another. And I think Star Trek, by and large, is a show about exploration, and Star Trek is about going forth and not trying to find your way home, so it did hold us back in certain areas¿but I think it was the best of both worlds"


So, in the long run, he didn't think VOY's concept was quite as good as the one in "Star Trek."  I dunno about that.  I think VOY's premise had a lot of potential.  I don't think it necessarily fulfilled all that potential, like the original BSG, but I do think it had it.

Lynx677

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POSTS: 7859

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 3:10 pm

Well, if anyone was "superfluous", then it was Berman. The comment about Kes being supefluous shows the lack of imagination and will to do something with the great material the writers did have in those amazing characters of Voyager, something they should have done instead of copying TNG while adding some eye candy at the same time. His whole attitude in this case shows the total lack of inspiration and ideas which plagued the show in the later seasons.

Not to mention that he wasn't man enough to tell Bujold that he didn't think that she was the right one for the Janeway role. Instead he came up with a lot of BS in order to make her quit. What a coward!

If Voyager had had some people with will and imagination in charge, the show could had been ten times as good as it was

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 3:17 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:10 pm)
Well, if anyone was "superfluous", then it was Berman. The comment about Kes being supefluous shows the lack of imagination and will to do something with the great material the writers did have in those amazing characters of Voyager, something they should have done instead of copying TNG while adding some eye candy at the same time. His whole attitude in this case shows the total lack of inspiration and ideas which plagued the show in the later seasons.

Not to mention that he wasn't man enough to tell Bujold that he didn't think that she was the right one for the Janeway role. Instead he came up with a lot of BS in order to make her quit. What a coward!

If Voyager had had some people with will and imagination in charge, the show could had been ten times as good as it was

I don't think you know what your talking about.
Having Mulgrew & Ryan made the show stronger.
Now he's a coward for not firing Bujold but he's evil for firing Lien.  Seems like there was no way to ever be right in your eyes.
Saying the show could be better can be said about any show on TV by critic. ¿The fact that the show pulled out 7 full years, got syndication rights and has a fan following still makes Voyager a success.

Lynx677

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7859

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 3:32 pm

Quote (exodus201 @ Aug. 25 2009, 4:17 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:10 pm)
Well, if anyone was "superfluous", then it was Berman. The comment about Kes being supefluous shows the lack of imagination and will to do something with the great material the writers did have in those amazing characters of Voyager, something they should have done instead of copying TNG while adding some eye candy at the same time. His whole attitude in this case shows the total lack of inspiration and ideas which plagued the show in the later seasons.

Not to mention that he wasn't man enough to tell Bujold that he didn't think that she was the right one for the Janeway role. Instead he came up with a lot of BS in order to make her quit. What a coward!

If Voyager had had some people with will and imagination in charge, the show could had been ten times as good as it was

I don't think you know what your talking about.
Having Mulgrew & Ryan made the show stronger.
Now he's a coward for not firing Bujold but he's evil for firing Lien. ?Seems like there was no way to ever be right in your eyes.
Saying the show could be better can be said about any show on TV by critic. ?The fact that the show pulled out 7 full years, got syndication rights and has a fan following still makes Voyager a success.

I do find it an act of cowardice not to tell the truth.

First of all, there is a difference between how Bujold and Lien was dumped. Bujold left before they started to film the series, obviously persuaded by Berman and his gang tat she didn't really fit while Lien had been there for three long years doing a great job and all of a sudden she was dumped.

In the first case (Bujold) , they couldn't tell her or the rest of the world that they thought that she didn't fit for the role. Instead they came up with some crap to make her leave.

In the second case (Lien), they had to come up with those fairy tales about how the writers all of a sudden lost their ability to write for a character who had been around for three years.

All of that instead of telling the truth which was:

In the Bujold case: Sorry, but we don't think that she did fit so we decided to bring in Mulgrew instead.

In the Lien case: She did a good job for three years but we wanted to bring in a sexy babe in a tight-fitting catsuit to attract male teenage viewers. We were planning to dump Harry Kim but then came that poll in People's magazine and since looks and sex appal mena more to us than good storytelling, we changed our minds and dumped Kes instead.

In the Beltran case: He dared to criticize our decisions and therefore we decided to freeze out him and his character because no one is allowed to criticize us in charge.

As for the fan following, you know as well as I do that the Voyager fanbas is somewhat smaller than the TNG and DS9 fanbases and is also very split up between different factions who likes different aspects of the show. The only thing that keeps us together is a certain love for the characters.

exodus201

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POSTS: 0

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 3:36 pm

^^For years I've heard you say the same stuff over & over again.
I no longer care.
I'm tired of your badgering.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:14 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 25 2009, 8:32 pm)
Quote (exodus201 @ Aug. 25 2009, 4:17 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:10 pm)
Well, if anyone was "superfluous", then it was Berman. The comment about Kes being supefluous shows the lack of imagination and will to do something with the great material the writers did have in those amazing characters of Voyager, something they should have done instead of copying TNG while adding some eye candy at the same time. His whole attitude in this case shows the total lack of inspiration and ideas which plagued the show in the later seasons.

Not to mention that he wasn't man enough to tell Bujold that he didn't think that she was the right one for the Janeway role. Instead he came up with a lot of BS in order to make her quit. What a coward!

If Voyager had had some people with will and imagination in charge, the show could had been ten times as good as it was

I don't think you know what your talking about.
Having Mulgrew & Ryan made the show stronger.
Now he's a coward for not firing Bujold but he's evil for firing Lien. ?Seems like there was no way to ever be right in your eyes.
Saying the show could be better can be said about any show on TV by critic. ?The fact that the show pulled out 7 full years, got syndication rights and has a fan following still makes Voyager a success.

I do find it an act of cowardice not to tell the truth.

First of all, there is a difference between how Bujold and Lien was dumped. Bujold left before they started to film the series, obviously persuaded by Berman and his gang tat she didn't really fit while Lien had been there for three long years doing a great job and all of a sudden she was dumped.

In the first case (Bujold) , they couldn't tell her or the rest of the world that they thought that she didn't fit for the role. Instead they came up with some crap to make her leave.

In the second case (Lien), they had to come up with those fairy tales about how the writers all of a sudden lost their ability to write for a character who had been around for three years.

All of that instead of telling the truth which was:

In the Bujold case: Sorry, but we don't think that she did fit so we decided to bring in Mulgrew instead.

In the Lien case: She did a good job for three years but we wanted to bring in a sexy babe in a tight-fitting catsuit to attract male teenage viewers. We were planning to dump Harry Kim but then came that poll in People's magazine and since looks and sex appal mena more to us than good storytelling, we changed our minds and dumped Kes instead.

In the Beltran case: He dared to criticize our decisions and therefore we decided to freeze out him and his character because no one is allowed to criticize us in charge.

As for the fan following, you know as well as I do that the Voyager fanbas is somewhat smaller than the TNG and DS9 fanbases and is also very split up between different factions who likes different aspects of the show. The only thing that keeps us together is a certain love for the characters.

Lynx, I didn't want Kes to leave the show, I'm not a big fan of changing the main cast, and I suppose the writers could have found a way to keep her on VOY but without the crazy powers, however that could have destroyed the Neelix character because only after she left did he stop being annoying.

The problem is who else could they drop? Harry Kim? no way should he even have been considered. Sure Harry didn't exactly live up to his early promise, but like most of the cast they had to make way for 7of9 heavy episodes.

IMO it had to be Kes that went, she brought the least to the show, and her character background wasn't well thought out. I mean they must have had some kind of structure in place to map out her life over VOY's journey, why else would the writers have given her a 10yr lifespan, but at some point they either decided they fracked up, or just couldn't think of a believable way to write for her.

teya1020

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2763

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:18 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:32 pm)
Bujold left before they started to film the series, obviously persuaded by Berman and his gang tat she didn't really fit while Lien had been there for three long years doing a great job and all of a sudden she was dumped.

Must you make things up?

Berman, according to this interview, attempted to convince Bujold that TV was different than making movies.  It is.  The production pace is faster.  

Bujold thought she could handle it.  

Berman's co-producers wanted Bujold.  Since there were 3 producers and 2 wanted Bujold, guess what happened?  

Majority won.  

They started filming the pilot.  Bujold quit after 2 days--after she saw that Berman was right after all.
Quote
All of that instead of telling the truth which was:


Your truth is pure fabrication.

Lynx677

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7859

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:20 pm

Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:18 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:32 pm)
Bujold left before they started to film the series, obviously persuaded by Berman and his gang tat she didn't really fit while Lien had been there for three long years doing a great job and all of a sudden she was dumped.

Must you make things up?

Berman, according to this interview, attempted to convince Bujold that TV was different than making movies. ¿It is. ¿The production pace is faster. ¿

Bujold thought she could handle it. ¿

Berman's co-producers wanted Bujold. ¿Since there were 3 producers and 2 wanted Bujold, guess what happened? ¿

Majority won. ¿

They started filming the pilot. ¿Bujold quit after 2 days--after she saw that Berman was right after all.
Quote
All of that instead of telling the truth which was:


Your truth is pure fabrication.

I just commented on what was written in rocketscientist's post.

But I guess you know better, as ususal.

teya1020

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2763

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:24 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:20 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:18 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:32 pm)
Bujold left before they started to film the series, obviously persuaded by Berman and his gang tat she didn't really fit while Lien had been there for three long years doing a great job and all of a sudden she was dumped.

Must you make things up?

Berman, according to this interview, attempted to convince Bujold that TV was different than making movies. ?It is. ?The production pace is faster. ?

Bujold thought she could handle it. ?

Berman's co-producers wanted Bujold. ?Since there were 3 producers and 2 wanted Bujold, guess what happened? ?

Majority won. ?

They started filming the pilot. ?Bujold quit after 2 days--after she saw that Berman was right after all.
Quote
All of that instead of telling the truth which was:


Your truth is pure fabrication.

I just commented on what was written in rocketscientist's post.

But I guess you know better, as ususal.

:laugh:  

Aw, poor put-upon Lynx....  People come in and contradict what he says.

Perhaps if you actually did some *real* research...

But, here's the first inkling you're wrong:

If Bujold left before filming started, then how did they have film of her as Janeway to include in the Season 1 DVD?

Hmmmmm?

Two, the pace of filming TV and movies is well known.  As a matter of fact, in a recent interview, Jeri Ryan stated a preference for television because of the fast pace.

Would you like me to go on?

Lynx677

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7859

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:36 pm

Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:24 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:20 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:18 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:32 pm)
Bujold left before they started to film the series, obviously persuaded by Berman and his gang tat she didn't really fit while Lien had been there for three long years doing a great job and all of a sudden she was dumped.

Must you make things up?

Berman, according to this interview, attempted to convince Bujold that TV was different than making movies. ?It is. ?The production pace is faster. ?

Bujold thought she could handle it. ?

Berman's co-producers wanted Bujold. ?Since there were 3 producers and 2 wanted Bujold, guess what happened? ?

Majority won. ?

They started filming the pilot. ?Bujold quit after 2 days--after she saw that Berman was right after all.
Quote
All of that instead of telling the truth which was:


Your truth is pure fabrication.

I just commented on what was written in rocketscientist's post.

But I guess you know better, as ususal.

:laugh: ¿

Aw, poor put-upon Lynx.... ¿People come in and contradict what he says.

Perhaps if you actually did some *real* research...

But, here's the first inkling you're wrong:

If Bujold left before filming started, then how did they have film of her as Janeway to include in the Season 1 DVD?

Hmmmmm?

Two, the pace of filming TV and movies is well known. ¿As a matter of fact, in a recent interview, Jeri Ryan stated a preference for television because of the fast pace.

Would you like me to go on?

Please continue if you like. I'm sure that there's more to nitpick and twist around.

I could easily come up with a reply where I could write a lengthy essay about the fact that I do know about Bujold filming one scene (the one with Tuvok) before quitting.

But I don't bother to do that. I'm tired, not only because it's near midnight where I live and I do have to get up early to work but also because I'm tired of the constant arguments with the same posters over and over again.

But if you want to nitpick more of my posts, feel free to do that.

teya1020

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2763

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:40 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:36 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:24 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:20 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:18 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:32 pm)
Bujold left before they started to film the series, obviously persuaded by Berman and his gang tat she didn't really fit while Lien had been there for three long years doing a great job and all of a sudden she was dumped.

Must you make things up?

Berman, according to this interview, attempted to convince Bujold that TV was different than making movies. ?It is. ?The production pace is faster. ?

Bujold thought she could handle it. ?

Berman's co-producers wanted Bujold. ?Since there were 3 producers and 2 wanted Bujold, guess what happened? ?

Majority won. ?

They started filming the pilot. ?Bujold quit after 2 days--after she saw that Berman was right after all.
Quote
All of that instead of telling the truth which was:


Your truth is pure fabrication.

I just commented on what was written in rocketscientist's post.

But I guess you know better, as ususal.

:laugh: ?

Aw, poor put-upon Lynx.... ?People come in and contradict what he says.

Perhaps if you actually did some *real* research...

But, here's the first inkling you're wrong:

If Bujold left before filming started, then how did they have film of her as Janeway to include in the Season 1 DVD?

Hmmmmm?

Two, the pace of filming TV and movies is well known. ?As a matter of fact, in a recent interview, Jeri Ryan stated a preference for television because of the fast pace.

Would you like me to go on?

Please continue if you like. I'm sure that there's more to nitpick and twist around.

I could easily come up with a reply where I could write a lengthy essay about the fact that I do know about Bujold filming one scene (the one with Tuvok) before quitting.

But I don't bother to do that. I'm tired, not only because it's near midnight where I live and I do have to get up early to work but also because I'm tired of the constant arguments with the same posters over and over again.

But if you want to nitpick more of my posts, feel free to do that.

Ah, the Lynx double-standard rears its ugly head again.

You complain when people aren't factual about Jennifer.

Yet when you do the same thing about other actors or TPTB, you whine when people point out that you're in error.  

You're so freaking predictable, it's pathetic.

teya1020

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2763

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:59 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:45 pm)
[quote=teya1020,Aug. 25 2009, 6:40 pmYou're so freaking predictable, it's pathetic.[/quote]
I wouldn't use the word "pathetic" if I were you.

Why not? The word expresses *exactly* what I meant to say.

So, are you now going to instruct me in how to post? Or are you giving me English lessons because you think me stupid?

What exactly are you saying here, Lynx?

Lynx677

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7859

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 6:03 pm

Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:59 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:45 pm)
[quote=teya1020,Aug. 25 2009, 6:40 pmYou're so freaking predictable, it's pathetic.

I wouldn't use the word "pathetic" if I were you.[/quote]
Why not? The word expresses *exactly* what I meant to say.

So, are you now going to instruct me in how to post? Or are you giving me English lessons because you think me stupid?

What exactly are you saying here, Lynx?

What I'm saying is that I find your contant attempts to pick a fight with me somewhat pathetic.

teya1020

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2763

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 6:05 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 6:03 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:59 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:45 pm)
[quote=teya1020,Aug. 25 2009, 6:40 pmYou're so freaking predictable, it's pathetic.

I wouldn't use the word "pathetic" if I were you.

Why not? The word expresses *exactly* what I meant to say.

So, are you now going to instruct me in how to post? Or are you giving me English lessons because you think me stupid?

What exactly are you saying here, Lynx?[/quote]
What I'm saying is that I find your contant attempts to pick a fight with me somewhat pathetic.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.

I'm simply correcting your factual inaccuracies. Just as I always have.

And you have certainly had some doozies over the years! Would you like me to recount them?

exodus201

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 8:19 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 6:03 pm)
Quote (teya1020 @ Aug. 25 2009, 6:59 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:45 pm)
[quote=teya1020,Aug. 25 2009, 6:40 pmYou're so freaking predictable, it's pathetic.

I wouldn't use the word "pathetic" if I were you.

Why not? The word expresses *exactly* what I meant to say.

So, are you now going to instruct me in how to post? Or are you giving me English lessons because you think me stupid?

What exactly are you saying here, Lynx?

What I'm saying is that I find your contant attempts to pick a fight with me somewhat pathetic.[/quote]

She isn't picking a fight, she' trying to teach you something.

I have a degree in TV/film production and teya's knowledge of it is correct, yours honestly isn't.

It's a shame you think everything is personal.  It maybe why you don't learn anything and need to make stuff up.

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