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Dukat:  Best Trek bad guy ever?

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 1:46 am

What do u think....

OtakuJo

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 1:51 am

I like Weyoun better as a bad guy. But Dukat is pretty cool too.

Funny I didn't like him at first but he kind of grew on me with more episodes and multiple viewings.

He does end up quite "Mfwa haha" towards the end. But he also has some occasional likeable, even funny moments -- which I think makes for a great bad guy.

TheDriver

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 3:07 am

You know, I'd have to agree that Dukat may just be the greatest Trek villain.

Sorry, OtakuJo, but as great as Combs' Weyoun is? He can't hold a candle to the insane depth of Alaimo's Dukat.

There are simply way more facets to the Dukat character than Weyoun.

captbates

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 5:19 am

Agreed, Weyoun wasn't really a classic "bad guy" he was following orders, and if the Founders had told him to oversee a non military project, he'd have happily done that.

If it is just DS9 then Dukat has to rank top, even if we use all Trek only really Khan would shade him.

OtakuJo

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 7:38 am

Well I confess it's close. I just thought Weyoun had a lot of character. But I kind of like that Weyoun (and many other DS9 antagonists) were not classic "bad guys." Same could be said of Dukat, at times -- although as far as Cardassians are concerned at least it's still Garak for the win, all the way.

But I'm not sure that any bad guys so as far as faves go, they're in a pretty close order anyway. Most of my favourite characters on DS9 are more protagonists.

So it's not like I'm saying Dukat wasn't cool. oh. Oops. I just said it just then... oh hell -- you know what I mean.

captbates

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 7:50 am

The supporting cast was what made DS9 so good, with characters like Weyoun, Dukat and Garak just simply outstanding.

TheDriver

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:25 am

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 23 2009, 8:19 am)
Agreed, Weyoun wasn't really a classic "bad guy" he was following orders, and if the Founders had told him to oversee a non military project, he'd have happily done that.

If it is just DS9 then Dukat has to rank top, even if we use all Trek only really Khan would shade him.

Now, don't get me wrong. I dig Wrath of Khan. And I find "Space Seed" to be enjoyable.

But I, in no way, believe Khan to be the "greatest Trek villain of all time."

I mean, he and Kirk never even came face-to-face in Star Trek II. Montalban's Khan simply provided a nemesis for Kirk to come face-to-face with his own mortality, age, and loss. That's what the movie was about.

In my view, Lloyd's Kruge was every bit as good of a "villain" as Khan. And so was the Borg queen in First Contact.

Dukat, on the other hand, is by far THE most multi-faceted "villain" in the entire Trek universe.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:52 am

Yeah you know Kahn had it out form Kirk but he didn't really scare me.  Kahn just reminded me of the classic bad guy obsessed.  Trek had plenty of those (Karnass, Nero, Sybok to name a few).  I wonder had Kahn won we he had felt empty afterwards because then he really would have had no purpose.  I did like Weyoun he was the classic "lawful evil" DND character.  He believed he was serving the founders and nothing would stop him from doing that.  He also believed he was doing right.

Dukat on the other hand started out as lawful evil, but by the time he lost his daughter and we see that amazing episode Waltz we learn that Dukat has become Adolf Hitler, a scarey "chaotic evil" character that was so unpredictable that no one knew exactly what he was going to do.  The only thing I always wonderedf about him, was why he didn't hate Damar?

Araashan

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 12:22 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Aug. 23 2009, 11:52 am)
The only thing I always wonderedf about him, was why he didn't hate Damar?


In my opinion, because of Damar's loyalty. From the moment he lost Deep Space nine and Ziyal, everything he had was taken from him, even his sanity. Once he returned to Cardassia, the Dominion didn't want anything to do with him, and he had lost all of his allies, except for Damar, who stayed loyal to him all the way. Even when he killed Ziyal, he considered it a favor to Dukat. I think Dukat knew that, and couldn't afford to be angry at the one man who'd stay loyal no matter what.

The Star Trek: Terok Nor trilogy gives a lot of insight into the relationship between those two characters, even though it's not cannon. Those books really did Dukat justice, and it feels like they explain the character in more detail, rather then remake him the way some characters were treated in the relaunch (Ezri comes to mind)

BrotherofShran01

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 12:42 pm

Quote (TheDriver @ Aug. 23 2009, 3:07 am)
You know, I'd have to agree that Dukat may just be the greatest Trek villain.

Sorry, OtakuJo, but as great as Combs' Weyoun is? He can't hold a candle to the insane depth of Alaimo's Dukat.

There are simply way more facets to the Dukat character than Weyoun.

I feel that the title of Trek's greatest villain belongs to Khan Noonien Singh. Dukat is good, but Khan is better IMHO.  :D

Damien

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 3:07 pm

Dukat vs Kahn... that's a tough one. Not sure I would want to have to chose between those two. So I declare a tie!

TheDriver

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 4:09 pm

Quote (BrotherofShran01 @ Aug. 23 2009, 3:42 pm)
Quote (TheDriver @ Aug. 23 2009, 3:07 am)
You know, I'd have to agree that Dukat may just be the greatest Trek villain.

Sorry, OtakuJo, but as great as Combs' Weyoun is? He can't hold a candle to the insane depth of Alaimo's Dukat.

There are simply way more facets to the Dukat character than Weyoun.

I feel that the title of Trek's greatest villain belongs to Khan Noonien Singh. Dukat is good, but Khan is better IMHO. :D

Why?

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Aug. 24 2009, 12:08 am

Kahn only gets the nod if you have read the books, if you haven't and you base it all on Trek episode data dukat wins easy.  maybe if we saw the scene where people on regula 1 got killed it would've been different.

OtakuJo

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Report this Aug. 24 2009, 12:19 am

What if I listened to audiobooks instead?

TheDriver

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Report this Aug. 24 2009, 6:43 am

Yeah, if you have to rely on non-canon books (and/or audiobooks ... ha) to determine the greatest "villain" in the Trek universe?

That's kinda' weak, IMO.

And OtakuJo? The question here isn't "do you like Dukat?" (It's obvious you don't.) It's "do you think Dukat qualifies as the greatest 'bad guy' in the Trek universe?"

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