Star Trek

Voyager is the best Trek yet, and the most that is like the original Trek. Exploring the unknown instead of re-cycling all the themes from TNG, and DS9. I think that Kim and Tuvok could have had better development through out the show, but I think it was fitting that after their return Tuvok taught at the acadmey and later joined Titan's roster. I think it was also fitting and a little strange to have Lt. Kim be head of security of Voyager once they got home. I don't think they are destroying the characters but seasoning them more and giving them more character development and emotion. After Star Trek Nemesis it's pretty obvious that there will be no more Trek on screen based on the 24th century. So the editors at Pocket Books can pretty much do anything they want to do with the characters. I thought it was a shame to have Janeway killed off (but yet Picard, Sisko, Calhoun) should have been let go way before her. And isn't Spock and Dr. McCoy still around? I mean why not kill them off once in for all since Voyager didn't come later until the end of the Trek series. I think it was a shame that she died, because she is my favorite Captain. ¿But it was strange that she risked her life and crew and ship all to get home and she died from the very thing that she never thought: the Borg. She became overconfident and when she boraded the USS Einstein her arrogance and overconfidence became her undoing as Lady Q warned her. It's like surviving cancer and then getting hit by a bus. I was also devestated that they decided to kill her off in TNG novel instead of a Voyager relaunch one. But why should all stories have a happy ending? I mean most of Star Trek has had one but they are living in a dangerous universe and God knows what else they will encounter that is worse off than the Borg? I mean all of the books show the main characters living on, and not really dying but living their merried lives. Why not shake that up a little bit?

^^
I see no reason in killing off and destroying the Voyager character and as a fan of those characters, I don't want to read about that.

If the authors want to "shake up things" and replace the old favorites with their own creations, then maybe they should create a new series (like New Frontier) with their own characters who they can kill off or ruin at random, not using the Voyager characters.

Quote (carolinavoyagerfan @ Aug. 26 2009, 12:55 am)

Voyager is the best Trek yet,

Hardly.

Quote

I think that Kim and Tuvok could have had better development through out the show,

Agreed, but that being said I believe the same could be said for almost 1/2 the cast.

I never felt they did enough with Chakote,Kim, Tuvok and Kes.

Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 25 2009, 4:34 am)

Quote (carolinavoyagerfan @ Aug. 26 2009, 12:55 am) Voyager is the best Trek yet, Hardly. Quote I think that Kim and Tuvok could have had better development through out the show, Agreed, but that being said I believe the same could be said for almost 1/2 the cast. I never felt they did enough with Chakote,Kim, Tuvok and Kes.

I have to give you some points here. I like Voyager, the characters and the original premise for the show. But there were a lot of things which could have been done much better.

I get the impression that the writers and producers ran out of ideas and in an attempt to win the TNG fans for Voyager, they started to copy things from TNG instead of giving Voyager it's own identity.

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:46 am)

Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 25 2009, 4:34 am) Quote (carolinavoyagerfan @ Aug. 26 2009, 12:55 am) Voyager is the best Trek yet, Hardly. Quote I think that Kim and Tuvok could have had better development through out the show, Agreed, but that being said I believe the same could be said for almost 1/2 the cast. I never felt they did enough with Chakote,Kim, Tuvok and Kes. I have to give you some points here. I like Voyager, the characters and the original premise for the show. But there were a lot of things which could have been done much better. I get the impression that the writers and producers ran out of ideas and in an attempt to win the TNG fans for Voyager, they started to copy things from TNG instead of giving Voyager it's own identity.

You may be right, but I always felt the issue was bigger then that.

Let me try to explain.

I dont blame the writers entirely for the fault with some of the characters.....I blame the actors as well.

Either because they didnt care enough or werent good enough is debatable.But each of those characters had enormous potential that was never realized.

And either the actors weren't good enough to bring it out or they didnt care enough to fight for the characters rights when they weren't given enough to do.

Look at TNG's Worf.He was never intended to be such an important character, but a combination of good acting and the actors interest in the future of his character made him one of the most beloved characters from TNG and Trek as a whole.

And to tell the truth, I believe these are all systems of a greater problem.

TNG and DS9 were both created as "syndicated" shows.So they needed to gather a better class of actor to those shows to insure that they were able to sell them.

While Voyager was a "NETWORK" show.It didnt have to be sold to be shown.So I believe the creators of the show lowered their standards on the level of quality of actors.

Patrick Stewart,Brent Spiner, LeVar Burton....these are all great or well known actors.

Avery Brooks, Rene Auberjonois, Armin Shimerman....same as above.

None of the actors on Voyager really match the acting skills or the notoriety of the above actors.....well maybe Robert Picardo Ethan Phillips come a bit close.

And the list of great reacquiring characters on DS9 was awesome. They did more with Garak, Dukat and Martok then they ever did with most of Voyagers cast.

I really felt Voyage suffered some because they chose to make it a network show and not a syndicated one.

^^
I think that the Voyager actors did a decent job but were hampered by sloppy and eratic writing.

I can agree that most of them didn't have the skill and experience of Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and some other well-known actors.

Still, they really gave life to the Voyager characters and did show certain skill when they were given the chance to do so.

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 25 2009, 5:44 pm)

^^ I think that the Voyager actors did a decent job but were hampered by sloppy and eratic writing.

The writing was great. You have a sick and morbid hatred of the writers.

Quote (Josh_Lyman @ Aug. 25 2009, 5:55 pm)

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 25 2009, 5:44 pm) ^^ I think that the Voyager actors did a decent job but were hampered by sloppy and eratic writing. The writing was great. You have a sick and morbid hatred of the writers.

You just have to try to ruin this thread too, don't you?

This happens every time I try to have a serious debate with someone about some Voyager subject. No wonder that I simply give up and save my most constructive posts to other forums where trolls aren't allowed to constantly attack certain posters.

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 26 2009, 4:44 pm)

^^ I think that the Voyager actors did a decent job but were hampered by sloppy and eratic writing. I can agree that most of them didn't have the skill and experience of Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and some other well-known actors. Still, they really gave life to the Voyager characters and did show certain skill when they were given the chance to do so.

I think they did the best they could do.

But other actors may have done better.

Quote (Josh_Lyman @ Aug. 26 2009, 4:55 pm)

Quote (Lynx677 @ Aug. 25 2009, 5:44 pm) ^^ I think that the Voyager actors did a decent job but were hampered by sloppy and eratic writing. The writing was great. You have a sick and morbid hatred of the writers.

The writting was far from great.

Everyone has an opinion on whether Voyager is the best. I think it is. I think it is the most like the original in that it had most of it's own villians except for the Borg (although the Borg are native to the Delta Quadrant) and in a sense they were really Voyager's villian instead of TNG since they were more widely used and explored with Voyager. I think Voyager had better actors than TNG or DS9 or ENT. I never liked Picard. I thought he was too arrgoant, not sensible and had a dry sense of humor. He was too serious. I liked Riker, Data the best from TNG. Everyone has an opinion and you don't have to like Voyager the best but I did. I also can't say that TNG movies were that stellar because they weren't. I think Voyager stood out alone from the other Treks in that they were lost, alone, and more human and less serious than TNG. Did they have to use the Q like TNG? No. I think of Q as more of Picard's nemesis than Janeways, and I think of the Borg as more of Janeway's nemesis. Overall I believe Janeway, Seven, Chakotay, Torres, Tuvok and Paris could take on anyone from TNG's crew head on with better acting and story lines.

Quote (carolinavoyagerfan @ Aug. 26 2009, 8:53 pm)

Everyone has an opinion on whether Voyager is the best. I think it is. I think it is the most like the original in that it had most of it's own villians except for the Borg (although the Borg are native to the Delta Quadrant) and in a sense they were really Voyager's villian instead of TNG since they were more widely used and explored with Voyager. I think Voyager had better actors than TNG or DS9 or ENT. I never liked Picard. I thought he was too arrgoant, not sensible and had a dry sense of humor. He was too serious. I liked Riker, Data the best from TNG. Everyone has an opinion and you don't have to like Voyager the best but I did. I also can't say that TNG movies were that stellar because they weren't. I think Voyager stood out alone from the other Treks in that they were lost, alone, and more human and less serious than TNG. Did they have to use the Q like TNG? No. I think of Q as more of Picard's nemesis than Janeways, and I think of the Borg as more of Janeway's nemesis. Overall I believe Janeway, Seven, Chakotay, Torres, Tuvok and Paris could take on anyone from TNG's crew head on with better acting and story lines.

I think you might be confusing "actor" and "character".I can see saying that you thought "Picard" sucked" but Patrick Steward is one of the best actors of out time.

There isint a single cast member on Voyager that can hold a candel to Patrick Steward's acting skills.

I could also go point for point with the other actors but I wont.

I believe Voyager is the best show. I don't know how to explain it. I didn't fall that much in love with TNG. I liked Data, Riker, and Troi but the rest of the cast was num. I never liked Picard. I thought he was too serious, arragont, and not compassionate. I like Janeway the best. I thought Mulgrew was a better actor, and as a woman put more compassion and acted somewhat as a motherly figure to her crew. Voyager bonded much more closely because they were lost. Listen everyone has a right to like which show best or equally like them. I never liked TNG, and I certainly never liked DS9 which was like a soap opera in space. I think Voyager didn't need to use the Q though. I still think of Q as more of Picard's nemesis. I thought it was fitting to make the Borg the main villians though. The DQ is their native environment, and I think they were better used as Janeway and Voyager's nemesis.

Quote (carolinavoyagerfan @ Aug. 27 2009, 9:34 pm)

I believe Voyager is the best show. I don't know how to explain it. I didn't fall that much in love with TNG. I liked Data, Riker, and Troi but the rest of the cast was num. I never liked Picard. I thought he was too serious, arragont, and not compassionate. I like Janeway the best. I thought Mulgrew was a better actor, and as a woman put more compassion and acted somewhat as a motherly figure to her crew. Voyager bonded much more closely because they were lost. Listen everyone has a right to like which show best or equally like them. I never liked TNG, and I certainly never liked DS9 which was like a soap opera in space. I think Voyager didn't need to use the Q though. I still think of Q as more of Picard's nemesis. I thought it was fitting to make the Borg the main villians though. The DQ is their native environment, and I think they were better used as Janeway and Voyager's nemesis.

Dont worry, you dont have to explain your love for Voyager.

I have no problems with you thinking it was the best trek.......everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

And I can understand you not likeing Picard........ not every one likes Chinese food ether.LOL

My only issue was with calling his acting bad.....which couldnt be further from the truth.

I can understand not likeing his character but denying his skill at the craft is a bit much.

"Not everyone liked Michel Jacksons music but no one could deny he was talented"

I couldn't agree more. True True. I don't think Stewart was a bad actor, I just didn't like the character of Picard. But we have our own opinions, and he's really good with Moby Dick and his other endevaors.