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Placing Red Matter in Center of Vulcan

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 11:39 am

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 26 2009, 8:24 am)

Quote
I mean people believe in God right? So why not in a different dimension which exists out of our time and space?


I suppose it's possible, yet why would a "God" need a dimension of its own?

Quote

My problem was the blackhole. That went against probably everything science "knows" about them. A blackhole the size seam would have enough power to destroy a whole solar system, freeze time and suck up light.


See it's not really a problem no matter how you look at it. It didn't go against science or what it knows about them, Since traveling through them, time travel and destruction of matter are all possible even though it may not be practical.

You really don't understand do you?

The black Holes Gravity is based on the size of the object that created the Black Hole. IF Earth were to become a black hole right now the Black Hole would have the EXACT same gravitational attraction it had before it became one.

What is so hard to comprehend?

I am beginning to suspect that your ignoring science to support your "opinion".


:logical:

SaturnsRings

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 11:44 am

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:24 am)
What was wrong with the Nexus?

I mean people believe in God right? So why not in a different dimension which exists out of our time and space?

I did not have a problem with red matter... let it be red, green, blue or whatever matter.
My problem was the blackhole. That went against probably everything science "knows" about them. A blackhole the size seam would have enough power to destroy a whole solar system, freeze time and suck up light.
That's the problem. A phenomenom which allows timetravel (whenever the plot needs it) and then destroys ships or planets (whenever the plot again needs it).

I really don't have a problem with the Nexus as a plot device. But as you say it is more of a fantasy element than a science element.

An energy ribbon floating through space? Sure that is science fiction. But an energy ribbon that transports you to blissful paradise and where you can travel anywhere at anytime is more of a magical fantasy element than science fiction.

I watched the PBS show NOVA last night that dealt with black holes. They did mention that a lot of mystery still surrounds what happens in a black hole and the laws of known physics don't always apply. So that can give science fiction writers some wiggle room.

rocketscientist

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 11:54 am

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:24 am)
What was wrong with the Nexus?

I mean people believe in God right? So why not in a different dimension which exists out of our time and space?

Do you really want me to get into this Storma? ¿It's a ridiculous concept with no basis in science at all. ¿I know. ¿I've taken a whole slew of graduate level physics classes.  The Nexus is A LOT more far-fetched than the "red matter" in ST.  The Nexus is complete fantasy.

Quote

That's the problem. A phenomenom which allows timetravel (whenever the plot needs it) and then destroys ships or planets (whenever the plot again needs it).


Blackholes can be wormwholes which can, theoretically, connect different points in space and time. ¿I read an article on this in Discover magazine years ago. ¿The problem that ST violates, and a lot of TNG with their wormhole travel, is that, to survive the tides, a blackhole would have to have a mass far beyond that of a star, I believe for a spacecraft to survive.

thereR4lights

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 12:02 pm

well at least it was a great movie

WkdYngMan

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 12:02 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:24 am)
What was wrong with the Nexus?

It's slightly flawed in theory....

Quote
My problem was the blackhole. That went against probably everything science "knows" about them.


So what?  Are you saying that we have a complete and full understanding of black holes and virtually everything else outside of earth?  Remember, at one time everything that science "knows" included the world being flat.

Quote
A phenomenom which allows timetravel (whenever the plot needs it) and then destroys ships or planets (whenever the plot again needs it).


You haven't proven anything to prove this wrong.  And as I mentioned, and as usual will have to repeat to you, VAB already posted research to support this theory, I suggest you look it up on here and read it, though I have no doubt you will simply ignore it.

Vger23

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 12:36 pm

Quote (rocketscientist @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:54 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:24 am)
What was wrong with the Nexus?

I mean people believe in God right? So why not in a different dimension which exists out of our time and space?

Do you really want me to get into this Storma? ?It's a ridiculous concept with no basis in science at all. ?I know. ?I've taken a whole slew of graduate level physics classes. ?The Nexus is A LOT more far-fetched than the "red matter" in ST. ?The Nexus is complete fantasy.

Quote

That's the problem. A phenomenom which allows timetravel (whenever the plot needs it) and then destroys ships or planets (whenever the plot again needs it).


Blackholes can be wormwholes which can, theoretically, connect different points in space and time. ?I read an article on this in Discover magazine years ago. ?The problem that ST violates, and a lot of TNG with their wormhole travel, is that, to survive the tides, a blackhole would have to have a mass far beyond that of a star, I believe for a spacecraft to survive.

We know about as little about Black Holes now as we knew about nuclear physics in the mid-1800's. Black holes are called the "greatest mystery in the universe" for a good reason!

I think it's safe to say that criticizing the science behind how one "operates" is kind of ridiculous considering how little we truly know about them.

thereR4lights

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 12:44 pm

Quote (Vger23 @ Aug. 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Quote (rocketscientist @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:54 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:24 am)
What was wrong with the Nexus?

I mean people believe in God right? So why not in a different dimension which exists out of our time and space?

Do you really want me to get into this Storma? ?It's a ridiculous concept with no basis in science at all. ?I know. ?I've taken a whole slew of graduate level physics classes. ?The Nexus is A LOT more far-fetched than the "red matter" in ST. ?The Nexus is complete fantasy.

Quote

That's the problem. A phenomenom which allows timetravel (whenever the plot needs it) and then destroys ships or planets (whenever the plot again needs it).


Blackholes can be wormwholes which can, theoretically, connect different points in space and time. ?I read an article on this in Discover magazine years ago. ?The problem that ST violates, and a lot of TNG with their wormhole travel, is that, to survive the tides, a blackhole would have to have a mass far beyond that of a star, I believe for a spacecraft to survive.

We know about as little about Black Holes now as we knew about nuclear physics in the mid-1800's. Black holes are called the "greatest mystery in the universe" for a good reason!

I think it's safe to say that criticizing the science behind how one "operates" is kind of ridiculous considering how little we truly know about them.

thank you, thank you thank you... this whole thread has been one asumption after another.. wilst saying it's science

axilmar1

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 6:48 pm

Quote (Vger23 @ Aug. 26 2009, 10:57 am)
Quote (axilmar1 @ Aug. 26 2009, 8:57 am)
In my opinion, the red matter thing is extreme pseudo-science, bordering on "ridiculous". It is just so unbelievable from so many sides. It really destroys any credibility or suspension of disbelief the movie might have.

HOLY GAWD!!!

Did you actually use the words "in my opinion????"

I NEVER thought the day would come!!!!!!

I am now digging a bomb shelter in my backyard and preparing for the end of civilization as we know it.



;) ¿:cool:

I apologized for my previous behavior on another thread. Yes, it's my opinion.

But you shouldn't be too interested if it's my opinion or not. What counts is what I say, not why I say it.

At least that's how it works for me.

axilmar1

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 6:49 pm

Quote (rocketscientist @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:17 am)
I actually thought the Nexus, the Genesis wave, chroniton particles, etc., were more ridiculous than red matter. ¿Especially that silly, magical Nexus. ¿

Also, blackholes can come in all sizes, including, theoretically, the quantum scale. ¿However, these, from what I recall, aren't totally "black." ¿There is a mechanism for energy to escape from them and so they evaporate in time. ¿They are postulated to only have been able to be formed naturally in the high energy density conditions of the big bang.

I have to agree with you about the Nexus.

I wish ST was more realistic.

PhantomCrunk007

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 6:52 pm

Quote (axilmar1 @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:48 am)
Quote (Vger23 @ Aug. 26 2009, 10:57 am)
Quote (axilmar1 @ Aug. 26 2009, 8:57 am)
In my opinion, the red matter thing is extreme pseudo-science, bordering on "ridiculous". It is just so unbelievable from so many sides. It really destroys any credibility or suspension of disbelief the movie might have.

HOLY GAWD!!!

Did you actually use the words "in my opinion????"

I NEVER thought the day would come!!!!!!

I am now digging a bomb shelter in my backyard and preparing for the end of civilization as we know it.



;) ?:cool:

I apologized for my previous behavior on another thread. Yes, it's my opinion.

But you shouldn't be too interested if it's my opinion or not. What counts is what I say, not why I say it.

At least that's how it works for me.

Well at least what you say matters to one person.

Vger23

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Report this Aug. 27 2009, 8:14 am

Quote (axilmar1 @ Aug. 26 2009, 6:48 pm)
But you shouldn't be too interested if it's my opinion or not. What counts is what I say, not why I say it.

I'm not sure I get it.

If "what counts is what you say and not why you say it" means that we should not be interesed in the meaning or idea that you are trying to deliver, but only on the words that are presented on the screen...then you are basically saying that we should not try to understand where you are coming from, and we should only take your statements at face-value as hollow and unexpandable.

I doubt very much this is the message you mean to convey.

Maybe you meant to say "what counts is what I say and not HOW I say it."

I don't know...just asking I guess.

Admiral_BlackCat

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Report this Aug. 27 2009, 9:46 am

RE the science of Star Trek:
NASA Science of Star Trek

"Accurate science is seldom exciting and spectacular enough to base a weekly adventure TV show upon."
"So let's forgive the show for an occasional misconception in the service of an epic adventure."
"Star Trek science is an entertaining combination of real science, imaginary science gathered from lots of earlier stories, and stuff the writers make up week-by-week to give each new episode novelty."

Scientific America

Vger23

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Report this Aug. 28 2009, 8:03 am

Quote (Admiral_BlackCat @ Aug. 27 2009, 9:46 am)
RE the science of Star Trek:
NASA Science of Star Trek

"Accurate science is seldom exciting and spectacular enough to base a weekly adventure TV show upon."
"So let's forgive the show for an occasional misconception in the service of an epic adventure."
"Star Trek science is an entertaining combination of real science, imaginary science gathered from lots of earlier stories, and stuff the writers make up week-by-week to give each new episode novelty."

Scientific America

Imagine that!

:cool:  ;)

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Aug. 28 2009, 5:32 pm

Just a movie, move on accept it, there have been plenty of examples over the years on how episodes didn't jive with science.  Try not to see a scientific connection between red matter and singularities because there isn't one and you will never find one.  It is fiction, good fiction, but fiction.  So relax, enjoy the movie and rejoice the return of Star Trek.  I think this movie can be considered successful.

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