ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

"All Good Things" - another temporal mess?

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:15 pm

Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:05 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:24 am)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 4:42 pm)
When Data scanned the interior of the anomaly, he detected 3 tachyon beams. ?I'm still trying to figure out where the third one came from?

The third Tachyon beam, which hadn't been engaged yet was travelling backwards in time due to the anti time eruption so although the Enterprise hadn't fired the beam yet it was present in the anomaly.

I understand that. ¿But you keep saying that it hadn't been engaged yet. ¿The third tachyon beam hadn't been engaged at all

Your not understanding it.

The beams were traveling backwards in time in time growing and acumilating as it went further back in time

So even thou the 3rd beam had not be  engaged in the future yet the effects of the 3rd beam were already present in the past.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:20 pm

Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 10:05 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 11:24 am)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 4:42 pm)
When Data scanned the interior of the anomaly, he detected 3 tachyon beams. ?I'm still trying to figure out where the third one came from?

The third Tachyon beam, which hadn't been engaged yet was travelling backwards in time due to the anti time eruption so although the Enterprise hadn't fired the beam yet it was present in the anomaly.

I understand that. ¿But you keep saying that it hadn't been engaged yet. ¿The third tachyon beam hadn't been engaged at all

Remember that Picard said the distortion was bigger in the past, it was growing backwards.
Now imagine that the 3rd beam was engaged by the ENT at 12 o'clock, the same ENT at 11-45 would see that beam because everything in the distortion is focused through time space, that's the paradox.

NuclearWessels

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9845

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:23 pm

but how could the enterpise (at 1145) see the beam from the 12:00 enterprise if the 12:00 never fired the beam?

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:27 pm

Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 10:23 pm)
but how could the enterpise (at 1145) see the beam from the 12:00 enterprise if the 12:00 never fired the beam?

Everything was travelling backwards through time, so even if the ENT was a day, a month or a year from the moment they fired the beam, there would still be 3 in the distortion.


EDIT

Just think of the description anti time everything in the distortion works in reverse.

NuclearWessels

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9845

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:30 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:27 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 10:23 pm)
but how could the enterpise (at 1145) see the beam from the 12:00 enterprise if the 12:00 never fired the beam?

Everything was travelling backwards through time, so even if the ENT was a day, a month or a year from the moment they fired the beam, there would still be 3 in the distortion.

I know they could've fired it at anytime in the timeline, and the Enterprise-D of the 'present' time could still see it.  All i'm saying is the 3 nacelled Enterprise never fired it at all during the episode.  From when Picard first went out looking for the anomaly, to when the 3-nacelled Enterprise was destroyed, they never fired the third tachyon beam.  

SO shouldn't that have broken the paradox?

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:42 pm

Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 10:30 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:27 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 10:23 pm)
but how could the enterpise (at 1145) see the beam from the 12:00 enterprise if the 12:00 never fired the beam?

Everything was travelling backwards through time, so even if the ENT was a day, a month or a year from the moment they fired the beam, there would still be 3 in the distortion.

I know they could've fired it at anytime in the timeline, and the Enterprise-D of the 'present' time could still see it. ?All i'm saying is the 3 nacelled Enterprise never fired it at all during the episode. ?From when Picard first went out looking for the anomaly, to when the 3-nacelled Enterprise was destroyed, they never fired the third tachyon beam. ?

SO shouldn't that have broken the paradox?

Right I see what your saying.

The events had already taken place as far as the anti time eruption was concerened. Q had given Picard the chance to save the universe, and he succeded by collapsing the distortion. I would assume that if the ENT had waited to the moment that the beam was fired, then even one second after that moment the distortion would no longer exist for them, and therefore the ENT could not collapse it as it only existed in the time before the pulse was fired.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 5:46 pm

EDIT

:rookie:

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 6:22 pm

Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:30 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:27 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 10:23 pm)
but how could the enterpise (at 1145) see the beam from the 12:00 enterprise if the 12:00 never fired the beam?

Everything was travelling backwards through time, so even if the ENT was a day, a month or a year from the moment they fired the beam, there would still be 3 in the distortion.

I know they could've fired it at anytime in the timeline, and the Enterprise-D of the 'present' time could still see it. ¿All i'm saying is the 3 nacelled Enterprise never fired it at all during the episode. ¿From when Picard first went out looking for the anomaly, to when the 3-nacelled Enterprise was destroyed, they never fired the third tachyon beam. ¿

SO shouldn't that have broken the paradox?

I see your problem now.

Your under the impression that the anomoly was caused by 3 Enterprises sendind a tacion beam.

It was the USS.Pasture that engaged the beam in the future.And I know your going to say that one of the Datas said all 3 beams came from the enterprise......but thats not exactly right.

That Data said that all 3 beams "SEEMED" to be originating from the Enterprise...."seemed" because they all had the same wave length amplitude.

And by right they should because it was "Data" that programed and engaged the beam in all 3 time lines.So the beam had the same signature in each time line even if it came from a different federation ship.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 6:52 pm

Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 25 2009, 11:22 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 26 2009, 5:30 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 3:27 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 25 2009, 10:23 pm)
but how could the enterpise (at 1145) see the beam from the 12:00 enterprise if the 12:00 never fired the beam?

Everything was travelling backwards through time, so even if the ENT was a day, a month or a year from the moment they fired the beam, there would still be 3 in the distortion.

I know they could've fired it at anytime in the timeline, and the Enterprise-D of the 'present' time could still see it. ?All i'm saying is the 3 nacelled Enterprise never fired it at all during the episode. ?From when Picard first went out looking for the anomaly, to when the 3-nacelled Enterprise was destroyed, they never fired the third tachyon beam. ?

SO shouldn't that have broken the paradox?

I see your problem now.

Your under the impression that the anomoly was caused by 3 Enterprises sendind a tacion beam.

It was the USS.Pasture that engaged the beam in the future.And I know your going to say that one of the Datas said all 3 beams came from the enterprise......but thats not exactly right.

That Data said that all 3 beams "SEEMED" to be originating from the Enterprise...."seemed" because they all had the same wave length amplitude.

And by right they should because it was "Data" that programed and engaged the beam in all 3 time lines.So the beam had the same signature in each time line even if it came from a different federation ship.

That's right it was Data that fired the three beams but not all of them were from the ENT, I'd forgot about that.

So it still throws up the problem of why the distortion was visible after it was formed. The only reason I can think of is that the anomoly itself is stable and visible because only the effects of anti time are travelling backwards.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 7:07 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 6:52 pm)
That's right it was Data that fired the three beams but not all of them were from the ENT, I'd forgot about that.

I'm glad I could help.

Quote
So it still throws up the problem of why the distortion was visible after it was formed. The only reason I can think of is that the anomoly itself is stable and visible because only the effects of anti time are travelling backwards.


Think of it as a cut in space time thats infected......but the infection is growing backwards in time.

It was visable after it formed because thats where the cut happened.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 7:29 pm

> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 6:52 pm)> id="QUOTE">That's right it was Data that fired the three beams but not all of them were from the ENT, I'd forgot about that.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 26 2009, 12:07 am)

I'm glad I could help.

:)

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 7:40 pm

> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 26 2009, 12:07 am)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 6:52 pm)> id="QUOTE">That's right it was Data that fired the three beams but not all of them were from the ENT, I'd forgot about that.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (captbates @ Aug. 26 2009, 7:29 pm)

I'm glad I could help.

:)

"One is glad to be of service"

NuclearWessels

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9845

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 8:32 pm

Sorry to be a pain but I thought the Klingons attacked the pasteur before they could get the tachyon beam ready. Unless I'm missing something but it's been a while since I saw it.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 9:50 pm

Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 26 2009, 8:32 pm)
Sorry to be a pain but I thought the Klingons attacked the pasteur before they could get the tachyon beam ready. Unless I'm missing something but it's been a while since I saw it.

Your not a pain.

And theres a reason you think that.

They never actually showed the tacion beam being used by the Pasture.

But Data said it would only take 14 hours to modify the deflector and complete the scan of the entire system.

Which indicats the modification time was short.

But later in the episode Picard and Data [in Ten Foward] both mention that they did start the scan.

NuclearWessels

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9845

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 10:53 pm

Quote (stovokor2000 @ Aug. 26 2009, 7:50 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ Aug. 26 2009, 8:32 pm)
Sorry to be a pain but I thought the Klingons attacked the pasteur before they could get the tachyon beam ready. Unless I'm missing something but it's been a while since I saw it.

Your not a pain.

And theres a reason you think that.

They never actually showed the tacion beam being used by the Pasture.

But Data said it would only take 14 hours to modify the deflector and complete the scan of the entire system.

Which indicats the modification time was short.

But later in the episode Picard and Data [in Ten Foward] both mention that they did start the scan.

hmm ok, i think it makes sense now, thanks for clearing it up!

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum