Star Trek

I was reading an article on CNN about increasingly powerful telescopes looking farther back in time. This never ceases to baffle me. I understand that all we're doing is detecting light from farther and farther away, but the direction thing is strange to me. I know that the sun will always look 8 minutes old from here, but I can't see the sun at night, because I'm facing away from it. If I develop a means of detecting light from 14B years ago, do I have to look in a certain direction to see towards the Big Bang? I was thinking that maybe the "curve of space" would inexorably lead me towards the original event no matter which direction I looked?
Also, If we're speeding away from the Big Bang, shouldn't we be able to tell where it happened?
I'm a complete idiot about these things, so please forgive me.

If you wanted to see where the oldest parts of the galaxy come from you would first have to position yourself to look towards the center of the galaxy from your relative position on the Earth. If you look up at the night sky when all of the pollution has cleared up and the annoying background light of a city is casting shadows in your viewing area you will be able to see the closest stars to us. These stars are very bright compared to the stars that are closer to the center of the galaxy and would appear more dim. If you focus hard enough you can even see some very faint starts that your barely able to see.

Quote (dryson @ Aug. 19 2009, 6:20 am)

If you wanted to see where the oldest parts of the galaxy come from you would first have to position yourself to look towards the center of the galaxy from your relative position on the Earth. If you look up at the night sky when all of the pollution has cleared up and the annoying background light of a city is casting shadows in your viewing area you will be able to see the closest stars to us. These stars are very bright compared to the stars that are closer to the center of the galaxy and would appear more dim. If you focus hard enough you can even see some very faint starts that your barely able to see.

What OperativeBob is asking is basically "Where is the center of the universe?" If we and all the other galaxies are the shrapnel from the big bang, we should be able to point our telescopes back to the point where the explosion occured. I know it is a whole lot more complicated than that, something about space itself inflating comes to mind. Otherwise, we could say the universe is only 28-30 billion light years across and is not infinite. KOBE showed us that the CBR comes from all around us and there is no clear bright spot that would be where the big bang happened.

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What OperativeBob is asking is basically "Where is the center of the universe?" If we and all the other galaxies are the shrapnel from the big bang, we should be able to point our telescopes back to the point where the explosion occured. I know it is a whole lot more complicated than that, something about space itself inflating comes to mind. Otherwise, we could say the universe is only 28-30 billion light years across and is not infinite. KOBE showed us that the CBR comes from all around us and there is no clear bright spot that would be where the big bang happened.

The philosophical question to the answer of looking towards the center of the Universe would be that if we did find the center of the Universe, where and how did the center of the Universe begin? Or are there other Universe's made up of billions of galaxies like our own but with different physics and elements completely different then what is in our Universe.

One can speculate to either yes or no but one cannot dispute that the Universe is infinite and not based on how life exists and functions here on Earth.

Quote (OperativeBob @ Aug. 19 2009, 3:48 am)

I was reading an article on CNN about increasingly powerful telescopes looking farther back in time. This never ceases to baffle me. I understand that all we're doing is detecting light from farther and farther away, but the direction thing is strange to me. I know that the sun will always look 8 minutes old from here, but I can't see the sun at night, because I'm facing away from it. If I develop a means of detecting light from 14B years ago, do I have to look in a certain direction to see towards the Big Bang? I was thinking that maybe the "curve of space" would inexorably lead me towards the original event no matter which direction I looked? Also, If we're speeding away from the Big Bang, shouldn't we be able to tell where it happened? I'm a complete idiot about these things, so please forgive me.

No, you don't have to turn toward a certain direction.

You see, the Big Bang happened everywhere.

The microwave background we detect is what we see of the Big Bang. The EM radiation has diminished in it's intensity to a point where it is at the microwave wavelength part of the EM spectrum.

At least, that's how I understand it.

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No, you don't have to turn toward a certain direction. You see, the Big Bang happened everywhere. The microwave background we detect is what we see of the Big Bang. The EM radiation has diminished in it's intensity to a point where it is at the microwave wavelength part of the EM spectrum. At least, that's how I understand it.

Once again promoting general relativity in your assumptions Grand Lunar. You might be able to see the affect of the Big Bang but the question asked was which direction should he face in order to be more orientated towards looking at where the center of the Milky Way Galaxy is not that the affect is everywhere.

You talk about other people picking and chosing what they want to believe or see but your last phrase goes to prove that it is you Grand Lunar that is picking and choosing what you want to see not based on the truth or as correct answer but only what you want to believe. So are you still taking tests where you just go down the list checking any A,B,C,D circle where you assume that because you think that you already know how to do something because you assume that it has been passed onto through your DNA from your ancestors that you don't have to learn anything because you inherited it from your ancestors?

Quote (starbase63 @ Aug. 20 2009, 1:28 pm)

So what would a nihilist say about the Big Bang?

Nothing, perhaps?

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a.possibility of an objective basis for truth. b. nothingness or nonexistence.

This is exactly what most of you here are nilist's people who object to the possibilty of the basis of a truth based on your own canon.

Space is also nilhistic as well.

Quit interupting the post topics.

If you cannot stay on topic then do not post here, start your own post where you continually interrupt the post with non-sense and allegory. This isn't a town hall meeting.

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The philosophical question to the answer of looking towards the center of the Universe would be that if we did find the center of the Universe, where and how did the center of the Universe begin?

That's true and extremely interesting, but it's an entirely different question.

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So what would a nihilist say about the Big Bang?

That is a STRANGE question. This has nothing to do with morals or values. I guess you'd have to ask one.

Also another question. If we're seeing some things from millions of years in the past, can we figure out what they might look like at this moment?

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Now this I only partially understand. I understand that we are part of the Big Bang. Can you explain how it happened everywhere?

I do have a theory on that that can be proven on paper, but until we find the graviton that is where it will remain a theory on paper.

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Well lets look at this from my creation constructin idea where I have used six gravitons where the reverse gravitational affect of the gravitational properties of a black hole are used as well as the gravitional pull of a blackhole as the central forces of the graviton. The reason that I use six gravitons is because the geometrical relationship between the six gravitons create perfectly tangent contacts when they are drawn together. In theory however any number of gravitons could be present, however the most important gravitons being the two that are attracted to each other first where they would compress the particles at their tangencies. At this point of tangency is where the greatest amount of compression would take place. The particles of matter in this tangency would be compressed into one another the point of the energy of the gravitational forces being applied at this center of tangency would create a friction as the gravitons spun at speeds faster then the speed of light. "Let There Be Light." The gravity at this central point of creation would then transfer to the the corresponding centers of each particle that was not at the central point of tangent creation but would have been trapped by the remaining gravitons as the exerted force of the two primary gravitons compressed the particles at their tangecies thus forcing the particles away from the central point of tangency to a point that they would no longer accelerate away from the central point of tangency but would be forced to spin on all axis at once based on the spin of the gravitons and the gravitons exerted force of gravitational transferance to each particle that would have been caught in the non-tangent void. As the compression gravity from each graviton transfered along the string's or the lines of gravitational transference to each particle the particles that had the greastest amount of magnetic attraction would increase in mass until their central particles that had received the gravitational transferance had exceeded their ability to main their central structure. These particles would then either collapse in on theirself creating a black hole or may have exploded in an spinning type manner where the now detached and seperated particles would have carried with each particle a certain amount of matter. As this matter spun in space it will have been hit by other particles where the collision would have resulted in the further break-up of the smaller particles that were affected upon by the larger particles. These even smaller particles would then have been held in a gravitational orbit around the larger particle or what we call suns. Now lets go back to the central point of compression where the particles were compressed the most. When the ability of the two tangent gravitons to remain attracted to each other had been negated by the explosive release of compressed energy at the central point of tangency due to the gravitons transfering their gravity across the non-tangent void ?to the uncountable amount of particles present where the gravity would then build up the particles to create even more gravitation forces the gravitons would be pushed away from being tangent to each other. As the gravitons were pushed away the gravitational pull towards the gravitons center would pull the particles that are now forming into suns and planets away from the central point of tangent compression. The greatest amount of gravity would be localized at the central particle that was compressed during the tangency, with the remaining particles being pulled along a vector relative to the sun's center which would then be relative to which center of each graviton the sun was closest to. This can be proven on paper at least by drawing six gravitons or circles that represent gravitons tangent to each other's edge or circumference. Then you shade in the areas between the non-tangent portions of the gravitons through the tangency to the non tangency of the opposite circles. This creates time. Now if you draw two lines parallel from the points where three of the circles form three tangecies from the opposite tangencies or draw a line from the central point of tangency created by the two first tangent graviton's central point of compression to the circles that are tangent to the left and right of the central point of tangency it will form a triangle or another hour glass in the shape of perfect timing needed to be present in order for a galaxy to be created. Now if we draw two lines parallel from each tangent corner angle to the opposite tangent corner angles it will form an imaginary rectangle. But the rectangle is not important only the fact that when you draw an elipse from the left circle to the central line that runs from the center of the top and bottom gravitons top the right center point of the right graviton that creates a central divide in the circle that is 90 degrees to the circles center to the bottom circle where the lines of time are parallel to the angle of time and then back to the circle on the left it forms and eliptically galaxy.

As the two single gravitons attract towards one another and if the same type of graviton is present within their gravitational field of attraction and if the remaining four gravitons attract to the first two single gravitons at the same instance of velocity at the point of creation or the point at which the gravitons compress the particles at the singular tangent point of incindence the remaining particles will be force away from the center of compression. The outward pushing affect of the four remaining gravitons will force the escaping particles to hit a gravitational wall to speak, meaning that they cannot go any farther because of the force of gravity being exerted upon them from the remaining four gravitons. This would cause the particles to spin and begin collecting the passing particles by them if they were small enough to be captured. As the particles amassed around each singularity, each gas giant, sun or solid planet would be determined by how much matter the singularity amassed, how weak or powerful the singularity was would determine how many particles were attracted to the singularity. When the largest singularity within a group of singularities amassed enough strong force gravitational attraction to capture other larger mass singularities is when a solar system would begin to form. The debris like the asteroids between Mars and Jupiter would have resulted from smaller single singularities not being captured by any of the larger singularities during this time of solar creation. This would be due to the now forming planets not possesing the strong gravitational attraction as they did when they were first compressed and put into their singularity spin. These particles would simply accelerate by the forming planets until they encountered a larger gravitational field such as Jupiter that would slow their rate of forward velocity down due to the gravitational wall affect that was present during the compression period of the galaxies. The largest gravitational body of the solar system would then slowly over time collect these absent bodies into an orbit around the largest gravitational body that is at the center of the solar system and the next largest gravitationally strong body in the solar system.

How it happened everywhere would depend on how many other (sextant) gravitons were present. If you notice in any book that presents the various galaxies in picture form you can see that each one is relatively the same size. This would mean that as stated above there had to have been various graviton spheres (six gravitons present in one single sphere)
compressing the matter within the spheres local space to create the Universe as we know it. Or if you continue to draw circles tangent to one another and shade in the area of time between the two tangent circles or gravitons then you will start to see how each galaxy may have been formed at once through the string theory of gravitational compression at the tangency of two gravitons.

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The philosophical question to the answer of looking towards the center of the Universe would be that if we did find the center of the Universe, where and how did the center of the Universe begin?

Also as Dr. Plait explains, the universe may not even have a center, no more than there is a center to the surface of a sphere.
Weird, isn't it?

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I assume you know that the Big Bang created all of spacetime. Prior to the BB, there was no spacetime as we know it. Afterwards, space came into existence, thus it can be said that the BB happened "everywhere". This is at least how astronomer Dr. Phillip Plait describes it in a book of his.

This is merely intelligent design or religion hidden in science.

"And before there was life there was only darkness and god said let there be light."


Prior to the Big Bang there was no spacetime (And before there was life there was only darkness) Afterwards (and god said),(let there be light space came into existence), thus it can be said that the BB happened "everywhere".

There is no beginning of space nor is there any end to space, when you try to say that there is a beginning and end to space it always turn into a paradox that if the Universe which is the entire UNIVERSE and not just what our instraments can detect and image map did have a beginning then where did that beginning come from? A simple answer like god created this and we can not know it does not exist. There is no answer to how the Universe began but there can be theories posed about how a galaxy is formed.