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Getting use to STXI's Kirk

PhantomCrunk007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5088

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 5:19 am

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 12 2009, 8:00 pm)
Yeah, had the same problems... NuKirk was designed to please today's teenagers... coolness over everything, even over intelligence, dignity, maturity, experience.

It is so out, to sit down and to study... one can reach anything being cool.

Kirk's promoted to captain, because he is cool.
Kirk never loses temper, because he is cool.

He always knows the solution. He is always cool. That's what being a hero is all about for present movie-going audience.

There is something ultimatly human missing in this characters (much more than in others).

The real Kirk was a human being, nuKirk is a hero straight out of the comic books. Cool, cooler, nuKirk.

I do not blame Pine. He did a fine job concerning the poor script he was given to work with. It's Orci and Kurtzman's fault.
NuKirk is like Shia's character from TRANSFORMERS... actually you could exchange both and would not notice a difference.

Cool, isn't it? ;)

So what is wrong with being cool? If you look up "cool" in the dictionary im pretty sure you're gonna find a picture of the Shat with an entry that states that both James T. Kirk and William Shatner are both equally cool.

Sounds to me like you're just uncool.

axilmar1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1576

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 8:40 am

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 13 2009, 11:00 am)
Yeah, had the same problems... NuKirk was designed to please today's teenagers... coolness over everything, even over intelligence, dignity, maturity, experience.

It is so out, to sit down and to study... one can reach anything being cool.

Kirk's promoted to captain, because he is cool.
Kirk never loses temper, because he is cool.

He always knows the solution. He is always cool. That's what being a hero is all about for present movie-going audience.

There is something ultimatly human missing in this characters (much more than in others).

The real Kirk was a human being, nuKirk is a hero straight out of the comic books. Cool, cooler, nuKirk.

I do not blame Pine. He did a fine job concerning the poor script he was given to work with. It's Orci and Kurtzman's fault.
NuKirk is like Shia's character from TRANSFORMERS... actually you could exchange both and would not notice a difference.

Cool, isn't it? ;)

Actually, the fault lies with the Paramount executives. They are those who give the direction. The movie had to make big bucks, and so we have the nuKirk.

axilmar1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1576

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 8:46 am

Quote

I do not care what a critic says about a film. I have been enough into film business to know that many reviews are bought, and some "critics" review a film bad, only because the studio did not give them a paycheck to promote the film.


Isn't it strange that there was no negative review about the film, except this, which is now removed?

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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POSTS: 0

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 10:05 am

Quote (starbase63 @ Aug. 14 2009, 6:06 am)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 13 2009, 1:16 pm)
The old fan base also wants to see more of this new TREK, I did not see that they didn't want to see more of the prime timeline as well.

And WE(you and I) both know that these message boards represent a small fraction of the fan base.

:logical:

The old fan base wants to see more of the new Trek, and they'll get it in any new movies that come along.

There's still plenty of the original timeline to be explored on TV.

Yeah, these boards is a small percentage...but then if one peruses a number of the other major boards, you get a slightly bigger percentage.

:logical:

I am not disagreeing with you SB, It's just that the reality of the situation is that the studio is going go with what they feel is going to make them the most money.


I know what the fans want both new and old.

It's just time to accept the fact that the odds are the studios will not make TREK that is based on the prime timeline.

No need to get upset or try and lecture anyone on the boards as to how much potential the original timeline has.  

It's all about how much money is the studio going to make by giving the pre-exsiting fan base what they want, which in their eyes already abandoned them by not supporting NEM or ENT. VS. The current fanbase(new and old) which just put down over 300 million world wide for the new movie.

If your in their shoes right now which side will you take?

Captain_Venkman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 330

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 10:42 am

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 13 2009, 1:02 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 13 2009, 10:00 am)
Concerning Berman's TREK XI. It was ment to become a Romulan War movie, opening chapter of a trilogy, written by Erik Jendresen, the man who wrote the "Band of Brothers" miniseries (which was simply awesome).

Now that would have been something completely new. A movie focusing on one central character. A huge, epic storyline AND still being part of the original timeline.

The only problem with that is that it only would have been TREK in title nothing more.

The other problem is it wouldn't have gathered much pace at the box office, because even though Trekkies/Trekkers (take ya pick) would have gone to see it, we make up a rather small number of the overall cinema audience.

"Mr. Joe Average" would have looked at it and said "Eh? Who are these people? I don't wanna see these, I wanna see the captain guy and the bloke with the ears and funny haircut"

Vice_Adm_Baxter

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 12:06 pm

Your missing my point SB,

You and I know what the exsisting fan base wants. More of the TREK we know and love.

You just need to realize the FACT that CBS  is going to do what it wants.

Yes I would love to see another prime TREK series it could happen.  The REALITY of the situation is that it most likely wont happen.  

I don't know why you can't see or accept it.

What started this conversation on my part is when I said fan produced series will probably be the most likely way we will get another prime timeline series.

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 12:33 pm

Quote (vadic @ Aug. 12 2009, 11:55 am)
This Kirk bothers me in that the alternate timeline does not adequately explain away some of the flaws in the character. The primeline Kirk, for instance is more saavy and secure, while the STXI Kirk is more arrogant and testy. .....During the movie, I kept wondering when this kid was going to grow up into the baratoned voiced diva we know as Kirk from TOS.

That high raspy voice gets on my nerves. However, I do like this Kirk's brashness and focus. I also like the fact that he didn't let the girl overshadow his duty which was much the flaw of TOS Kirk. I would imagine that losing his father and only having a scant relationship with his mother, being bounced around between abusive relatives and getting into trouble would have had an effect on making him a different James T. Kirk.

Maybe with the next movie, he'll grow on me! :eyesroll:

Chris Pine was not good but better than the rest of the cast,
if the movie had a decent story, as a cadet, he might work,
not as a Captain, Chris Pine has no presence to be Captain, he's no Shatner.

jn91669

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 720

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 1:00 pm

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Aug. 14 2009, 5:12 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 14 2009, 2:27 am)
Of course... everything we write here is your or mine opinion. ?:D

Nobody here has the ultimate knowledge ?;)

I understand that you did not like the movie and you have told us many reasons why that is, some of which I agree with (and as I have said before, many of the things that disappointed you, did not bother me).

What I would like to know is how you react to the fact that so many long-time Star Trek fans DO see a very similar Kirk in STXI. That we see nuKirk as being a totally viable version of JTK, that we can see the only differences being age and the different life experiences.

The reason I ask, is that you are asking us to agree with you that the Kirk portrayed in the movie is somehow inferior the Kirk Prime. And I must say that not many people agree with you, many, if not most people here on ST.com seem to relate to the nuKirk and see much to look forward to in his character development.

My impression of Bale's Batman (for want of a better term) is that he is more an Anti-hero than a Hero. Now I have not seen much of this particular Batman, but my understanding (and I have checked with people who are familiar with the franchise) is that he is dark, psychologically damaged and all about 'justice' at any price. I for one, would object whole-heartedly to MY Kirk being portrayed with any one of those qualities, let alone cluster of them.

I see nuKirk as eminently 'human' and he does not need to be turned into an anti-hero to achieve this.

Kirk Prime was not perfect, but he tried; nuKirk is not perfect, but he is aiming to achieve that. If he comes off as a little arrogant, then I am able to allow that to be knocked out of him by life and Command. I do NOT expect him to be perfect at 25 years of age (Kirk Prime certainly wasn't - in the prime timeline, wasn't he aboard the Farragut making mistakes that would continue to torture him for years to come??? )

If I can interject...

I think what we are seeing is the confusion between confidence and co#kiness. Heros of the 60s were confident heros today are c#cky there is a huge difference even though it may be to subtle for some to see.

I see old Kirk as being arrogant at times and confident but with an underlining insecurity, based on his experiences, failures and accomplishments in life and as a starfleet officer. One scene comes to mind from TWOK

"I did nothing - except get caught with my britches down."
"I must be getting senile. ¿Mister Saavik, you go right on quoting regulations. ¿In the meantime, let's find out how badly we've been hurt."

I am sure there are many more but that was the first to come to mind.

NuKirk is c#cky not based on his accomplishments in life but a defiance based on his conflict with his step father and on his appearance which is evident in the bar scene and the scene when Uhura catches him in bed with her roomate. He uses manipulation, old Kirk used charm to manipulate. He is todays bang your chest screaming hoorah hero and that sells.

Heros prior to the 90s would not sell in todays market. Stars like Gable, Wayne, Flynn and Fairbanks (to name a few) would not be stars today, they do not fit the bill.

DarthRage

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POSTS: 289

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 1:32 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we never saw prime Kirk at this age (Pine's Kirk) in TOS did we? So, with no frame of reference, who's to say prime's Kirk, during his acadamy years, was just as (insert complaint) as Pine's Kirk at the same age? Hmmm?

jn91669

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 720

Report this Aug. 14 2009, 2:24 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Aug. 14 2009, 2:21 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ Aug. 14 2009, 1:32 pm)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we never saw prime Kirk at this age (Pine's Kirk) in TOS did we? So, with no frame of reference, who's to say prime's Kirk, during his acadamy years, was just as (insert complaint) as Pine's Kirk at the same age? Hmmm?

Ah, but there are some references. We know now in canon thanks to STXI that Prime Kirk was raised in part by his father...which nu Kirk wasn't. So already we have different upbringing.

We also know from TOS that the Prime Kirk was a serious student (as Kirk said, "I was positively grim" ) described as "a stack of books with legs" and picked on by a particular upperclassman because of his studiousness (Cadet Finnegan).

Prime Kirk also said in "Court Martial" that being a starship captain was all he ever wanted to be...that's not the case of nu Kirk.

:logical:

And lets not forget at 13 Kirk prime witnessed the massacre on Tarsus IV

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