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Getting use to STXI's Kirk

vadic

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POSTS: 1289

Report this Aug. 13 2009, 10:55 am

This Kirk bothers me in that the alternate timeline does not adequately explain away some of the flaws in the character. The primeline Kirk, for instance is more saavy and secure, while the STXI Kirk is more arrogant and testy. .....During the movie, I kept wondering when this kid was going to grow up into the baratoned voiced diva we know as Kirk from TOS.

That high raspy voice gets on my nerves. However, I do like this Kirk's brashness and focus. I also like the fact that he didn't let the girl overshadow his duty which was much the flaw of TOS Kirk. I would imagine that losing his father and only having a scant relationship with his mother, being bounced around between abusive relatives and getting into trouble would have had an effect on making him a different James T. Kirk.

Maybe with the next movie, he'll grow on me! :eyesroll:

Captain_Storma

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 11:00 am

Yeah, had the same problems... NuKirk was designed to please today's teenagers... coolness over everything, even over intelligence, dignity, maturity, experience.

It is so out, to sit down and to study... one can reach anything being cool.

Kirk's promoted to captain, because he is cool.
Kirk never loses temper, because he is cool.

He always knows the solution. He is always cool. That's what being a hero is all about for present movie-going audience.

There is something ultimatly human missing in this characters (much more than in others).

The real Kirk was a human being, nuKirk is a hero straight out of the comic books. Cool, cooler, nuKirk.

I do not blame Pine. He did a fine job concerning the poor script he was given to work with. It's Orci and Kurtzman's fault.
NuKirk is like Shia's character from TRANSFORMERS... actually you could exchange both and would not notice a difference.

Cool, isn't it? ;)

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 11:13 am

CS Why you you keep repeating the same false truths?

Nu-Kirk will take muck getting used to for obvious reasons like:

He is supposed to be younger tham the Kirk we saw in TOS.

As for NuKirk having flaws, well every real person has flaws a character without them would be un believable....

He is less mature and needs to grow into the Kirk we are familiar with, Even though this Kirk will be different due to various event in the A.U.

Captain_Storma

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 11:22 am

He was simply to cool for my taste.

I would have prefered a Kirk much more like Bale's BATMAN (if they have to rip off another franchise, then they should at least make it right).

Bale's character was believeable. He was human.
Pine's character didn't take anything seriously. He was designed for an audience (at least I got that impression) which would not want to think about anything, just see a SFX, action ride, with some people throwing in a sentese or two in between.

That was my impression.

The concept was not very well thought through. There were just two scenes, where Kirk's "human" side could transpire: His talk to Pike in the bar, and some of the dialogue with old Spock. Other than that, Kirk's character felt just like Shia's character from TRANSFORMERS to me.

Honestly. I thought very long about it (I really care about TREK, unlike some of you might think), and I blame the writers.
TRANSFORMERS is one kind of movie, but taking the same people to write TREK was IMO a huge mistake. It is obvious that Orci and Krutzman have yet to mature to become quality writers. When I watch their films I have the impression that they are living out, what they wanted to do when they were young: Hey cool, let's blow up an aircraft carrier; hey let's have a swordfight high above ground.
So they write those scenes but do not care about the setup. When it comes to integrate the scenes into the whole film, they simply force something to fill the gaps.
That was my impression when I watched TRANSFORMERS, MI:III and STAR TREK. No concept, no major plot.

Watch STATE OF PLAY for example, and you will see that the plot was there first. The basic idea to tell the story. Everything else was added and written afterwards.
That's how a movie should be developed.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 12:21 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 13 2009, 8:22 am)

Quote
I would have prefered a Kirk much more like Bale's BATMAN (if they have to rip off another franchise, then they should at least make it right).


Yet even the real Kirk wasn't like Bale's version of Batman....

Quote
That was my impression.


You clearly missed all of that. You ignore that because you didn't get the type of movie you wanted.  That's what it really boils down to.

Quote

The concept was not very well thought through. There were just two scenes, where Kirk's "human" side could transpire: His talk to Pike in the bar, and some of the dialogue with old Spock. Other than that, Kirk's character felt just like Shia's character from TRANSFORMERS to me.


That's your opinion and has no bearing on the truth.

Captain_Storma

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 12:27 pm

Of course... everything we write here is your or mine opinion.  :D

Nobody here has the ultimate knowledge  ;)

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 12:33 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 13 2009, 9:27 am)
Of course... everything we write here is your or mine opinion. ¿:D

Nobody here has the ultimate knowledge ¿;)

This is true,

Although it is not a good thing to see someone opposed to change. I personally figure that TREK XI did what it was designed to do: Re-introduce people to Star Trek by showing them the key players and their beginnings of possible potential, since it was a character introduction story.

TREK XII is the one we have to be concerned with because it will show where things are going...

Captain_Storma

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 12:36 pm

I am not against change, in fact that's what I am fighting for.

But a recast of original characters is by my definition not change, not evolution, but regression.
It is like warming up an old soup out of laziness instead of cooking a new one (which would require much more work).

TREK has outgrown Kirk, Spock, Picard, Data and the name Enterprise.
I for my part do not want to see "what if" scenarios with those characters.
I want something new. New, fresh characters which can be accepted by both, old fans and new fans alike. ?:)

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 12:39 pm

I like the same thing myself, yet I realize and can accept the only way that will happen is through fan produced series.

We wont get that from Paramount/CBS in the near future. That's just the reality of things to come.

rocketscientist

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 12:54 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 13 2009, 12:36 pm)
I am not against change, in fact that's what I am fighting for.

But a recast of original characters is by my definition not change, not evolution, but regression.
It is like warming up an old soup out of laziness instead of cooking a new one (which would require much more work).

TREK has outgrown Kirk, Spock, Picard, Data and the name Enterprise.
I for my part do not want to see "what if" scenarios with those characters.
I want something new. New, fresh characters which can be accepted by both, old fans and new fans alike. ?:)

From Nimoy's talk at VEGASCON09:

http://trekmovie.com/2009....shatner

Quote

Regarding the new Star Trek movie, Nimoy said he and Zach Quinto had spent up to fifteen hours together before filming, but they focused on the philosophy of Star Trek and the Vulcans and they didn¿t get into specific scenes. He felt Quinto did an "excellent job" and it was "appropriate" that Quinto¿s Spock was different due to the different time in Spock¿s life. [b] Regarding the relationship with Uhura, the original Spock joked he was "jealous", but that even though it was surprising he thought it was well done. He went on to say:

"It reminded us that we are not watching exactly the same people, we are watching people in another timeline. I thought that was a real intelligent construction of this movie. It feed them so they can do things like that that and not deal with those that say ¿that isn¿t he way it was in this or that episode¿
"



And, wrt old fans accepting "new, fresh characters," obviously that didn't work well at all with VOY, and ENT, did it?  Heck, it didn't even work for the TNG characters, which had the best performance on TV of any of the franchise's shows, in NEM, did it?  

I think what they did with ST XI was brilliant, rebooting and returning to those classic and iconic characters, characters that just about everyone is aware of, and opening up the future to them.  It really is, imo, the best of both worlds.  

I can tell you this.  Personally, I wouldn't have been much interested in seeing another Berman film with a new cast of characters.  I just got really tired of the TNG formula after VOY, GEN, INS, and NEM.  It was time for that to end.  I don't think new characters were necessarily the answer.  I think Abram, Orci, and Kurtzmann's solution, returning with a very fresh take with the original characters, really worked well.  Obviously it did, based on both the critical reviews (95% on rottentomatoes.com) and the box office.  They got it right.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 12:58 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Aug. 13 2009, 9:41 am)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 13 2009, 12:33 pm)
TREK XII is the one we have to be concerned with because it will show where things are going...

Only as far as movies go.

It is in no way a solid indication of how any future tv series will go.

:logical:

Actually at this point, IF they decide to do a TV series it will be based on the success of TREK XI even if its a different ship and crew.

In short for the foreseeable future the prime timeline is dead in the water like it or not.

:logical:

Captain_Storma

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 1:00 pm

Concerning Berman's TREK XI. It was ment to become a Romulan War movie, opening chapter of a trilogy, written by Erik Jendresen, the man who wrote the "Band of Brothers" miniseries (which was simply awesome).

Now that would have been something completely new. A movie focusing on one central character. A huge, epic storyline AND still being part of the original timeline.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 1:01 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Aug. 13 2009, 9:42 am)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 13 2009, 12:39 pm)
I like the same thing myself, yet I realize and can accept the only way that will happen is through fan produced series.

We wont get that from Paramount/CBS in the near future. That's just the reality of things to come.

We know what we're getting from Paramount.

We don't yet know what we'll get from CBS.

You can't think of them as one entity anymore.

:logical:

I am not thinking of them as one entity. I am looking at it from a business oriented point of view. They are going to meet the current demands of what fans want and at this point in time the fan base(new and old) want more TREK XI based Trek for the most part.

:logical:

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 1:02 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Aug. 13 2009, 10:00 am)
Concerning Berman's TREK XI. It was ment to become a Romulan War movie, opening chapter of a trilogy, written by Erik Jendresen, the man who wrote the "Band of Brothers" miniseries (which was simply awesome).

Now that would have been something completely new. A movie focusing on one central character. A huge, epic storyline AND still being part of the original timeline.

The only problem with that is that it only would have been TREK in title nothing more.

Captain_Storma

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Report this Aug. 13 2009, 1:03 pm

I am wondering if TREK XI would have turned that successful, if ENTERPRISE had finished its run.

My theory is that fans were so in need of new TREK, that they would simply accept anything served to them. Pretty much the TMP phenomenom all over again.

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