RomanLion GROUP: Members POSTS: 1234  |
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Aug. 10 2009, 6:45 pm
This was on RCP earlier this afternoon, but they pulled it... Gee, I wonder why? The writer is named David Sirota, and he hits it out of the park! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin....1B9.DTL| Quote | I know I should be mortified by the lobbyist-organized mobs of angry Brooks Brothers mannequins who are now making headlines by shutting down congressional town-hall meetings. I know I should be despondent during this, the Khaki Pants Offensive in the Great American Health Care and Tax War. And yet, I'm euphorically repeating one word over and over again with a big grin on my face.
Finally.
Finally, there's no pretense. Finally, the Me-First, Forget-Everyone-Else Crowd's ugliest traits are there for all to behold.
The group's core gripe is summarized in a letter I received that denounces a proposed surtax on the wealthy and corporations to pay for universal health care: "Until recently, my family was in the top 3 percent of wage earners," the affluent businessperson fumed in response to my July column. "We are in the group that pays close to 60 percent of this nation's taxes. ... Think for a second how you would feel if you built a business and contributed more than your share to this country only to be treated like a pariah."
This sob story about the persecuted rich fuels today's "Tea Parties" - and I'm sure you've heard some version of it in your community.
I'm also fairly certain that when many of you run into the Me-First, Forget-Everyone-Else Crowd, you don't feel like confronting the faux outrage. But if you do muster the impulse to engage, here's a guide to navigating the conversation:
What they will scream: We can't raise business taxes, because American businesses pay excessively high taxes!
What you should say: The General Accountability Office reports that most U.S. corporations pay zero federal income tax. Additionally, as even the Bush Treasury Department admitted, America's effective corporate tax rate is the third lowest in the industrialized world.
What they will scream: But the rich still "pay close to 60 percent of this nation's taxes!"
What you should say: Such statistics refer only to the federal income tax. When considering all of "this nation's taxes" including payroll, state and local levies, the top 5 percent pay just 38.5 percent of the taxes.
What they will scream: But 38.5 percent is disproportionately high! See? You've proved that the rich "contribute more than their share" of taxes!
What you should say: They are paying almost exactly "their share." According to the data, the wealthiest 5 percent of America pays 38.5 percent of the total taxes precisely because they make just about that share of total national income. Stripped of facts, your conversation partner will soon turn to unscientific terrain, claiming it is immoral to "steal" and "redistribute" income via taxes. Of course, he will be specifically railing on "stealing" for stuff like health care, which he insists gets "redistributed" only to the undeserving and the "lazy" (a classic code word for "minorities"). But he will also say it's OK that government sent trillions of dollars to Wall Streeters.
What you've discovered is that the Me-First, Forget-Everyone-Else Crowd isn't interested in fairness, empiricism or morality.
With 22,000 of their fellow countrymen dying annually for lack of health insurance and with Warren Buffett paying a lower effective tax rate than his secretary, the Me-First, Forget-Everyone-Else Crowd is merely using the argot of fairness, empiricism and morality to hide its real motive: selfish greed.
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Corwin8 GROUP: Members POSTS: 8468 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 3:45 pm
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PhantomCrunk007 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5088 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 4:28 pm
| Quote (Corwin8 @ Aug. 11 2009, 12:45 am) |  |
That article only reinforced the notion that the me first's: screw everyone else people are in fact greedy pricks. Boo hoo that some people make the most money and pay the most taxes. deal with it. You dont see me crying about it and i pay close to 6 figures in taxes some years, and thats just federal income tax. I will say this though, i find it hilarious that people still dont get that corporations in america used to bare the largest burden of taxes once upon a time. If you me first people would stop being so greedy you would figure out that the very people you defend are the same people that shifted the tax burden on poor you. |
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RomanLion GROUP: Members POSTS: 1234 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 6:44 pm
| Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Aug. 11 2009, 4:28 pm) | That article only reinforced the notion that the me first's: screw everyone else people are in fact greedy pricks.
Boo hoo that some people make the most money and pay the most taxes. deal with it. You dont see me crying about it and i pay close to 6 figures in taxes some years, and thats just federal income tax.
I will say this though, i find it hilarious that people still dont get that corporations in america used to bare the largest burden of taxes once upon a time. If you me first people would stop being so greedy you would figure out that the very people you defend are the same people that shifted the tax burden on poor you. |
Corwin is like Rom, hoping he'll get to be part of the exploitation... when he's probably just a victim of it like the rest of us... Of course, he brings up these dishonest weeping about "income tax" being paid disproportiately by the rich, but the fact is that it's an equalizing tax... The ironic things was in the 1950's, the wealthy were taxed at a rate of 70% and 50% of employees belonged to a union. It was the greatest period of economic wealth in our history... But the greedy just got too greedy. |
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Corwin8 GROUP: Members POSTS: 8468 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 8:29 pm
| Quote (RomanLion @ Aug. 11 2009, 6:44 pm) | | Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Aug. 11 2009, 4:28 pm) | That article only reinforced the notion that the me first's: screw everyone else people are in fact greedy pricks.
Boo hoo that some people make the most money and pay the most taxes. deal with it. You dont see me crying about it and i pay close to 6 figures in taxes some years, and thats just federal income tax.
I will say this though, i find it hilarious that people still dont get that corporations in america used to bare the largest burden of taxes once upon a time. If you me first people would stop being so greedy you would figure out that the very people you defend are the same people that shifted the tax burden on poor you. |
Corwin is like Rom, hoping he'll get to be part of the exploitation... when he's probably just a victim of it like the rest of us...
Of course, he brings up these dishonest weeping about "income tax" being paid disproportiately by the rich, but the fact is that it's an equalizing tax...
The ironic things was in the 1950's, the wealthy were taxed at a rate of 70% and 50% of employees belonged to a union. It was the greatest period of economic wealth in our history... But the greedy just got too greedy. |
Going to keep going at it? My point, that you missed, was that any assclown on the web can produce these articles. But keep attacking the poster, and not the topic. I love that. I got to ask. Why are your articles bulletproof evidence of healthcare reform and the whining from the right, but any opposing view is dismissed along with the poster. Your 'facts' are just as nebulous as the other nonsense out there. And please don't offer up how the rich, evil, corprate machine chewed you up and spit you out. We get it. You are not the first nor shall you be the last. The diffrence is weather you can move on and succeed, or continue to blame others for all the problems you went through. I think I know how this will go. |
Vice_Adm_Baxter GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 8:46 pm
| Quote (Corwin8 @ Aug. 11 2009, 12:45 pm) | |
Bull Sh*t! I have read the bill personally and as I said before the burden of the expenses will come from the corporations that at this point in time pay no taxes when all is said and done. |
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Vice_Adm_Baxter GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 8:53 pm
| Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Aug. 11 2009, 1:28 pm) | That article only reinforced the notion that the me first's: screw everyone else people are in fact greedy pricks.
Boo hoo that some people make the most money and pay the most taxes. deal with it. You dont see me crying about it and i pay close to 6 figures in taxes some years, and thats just federal income tax.
I will say this though, i find it hilarious that people still dont get that corporations in america used to bare the largest burden of taxes once upon a time. If you me first people would stop being so greedy you would figure out that the very people you defend are the same people that shifted the tax burden on poor you. |
PC I make and pay taxes on an income in the mid 6 digits. The people in here complaining about the proposed legislation have no clue as to what they are talking about to be quite honest. As far as I know I am the ONLY person on these message boards to have actually read the bill with my own eyes. I know that they are going to call me a liar and that I have no clue as to what it represents. To them I can only say two things: 1. Get a PhD and 2 Masters degrees 2. Maybe I will consider their opinions at that point. |
Splurk GROUP: Members POSTS: 801 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 8:53 pm
No one has still replied to this simple empirical given:
- US of Ey is the only developed country without universal health care
- US of Ey has a remarkably lower life expectancy compared to countries that do have universal health care, but have a much smaller oeconomy per capita.
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Splurk GROUP: Members POSTS: 801 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 8:55 pm
| Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 11 2009, 9:53 pm) | | Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Aug. 11 2009, 1:28 pm) | That article only reinforced the notion that the me first's: screw everyone else people are in fact greedy pricks.
Boo hoo that some people make the most money and pay the most taxes. deal with it. You dont see me crying about it and i pay close to 6 figures in taxes some years, and thats just federal income tax.
I will say this though, i find it hilarious that people still dont get that corporations in america used to bare the largest burden of taxes once upon a time. If you me first people would stop being so greedy you would figure out that the very people you defend are the same people that shifted the tax burden on poor you. |
¿
PC ¿I make and pay taxes on an income in the mid 6 digits. The people in here complaining about the proposed legislation have no clue as to what they are talking about to be quite honest. As far as I know I am the ONLY person on these message boards to have actually read the bill with my own eyes. I know that they are going to call me a liar and that I have no clue as to what it represents. To them I can only say two things:
1. Get a PhD and 2 Masters degrees
2. Maybe I will consider their opinions at that point. |
What are yours in? |
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Vice_Adm_Baxter GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 8:56 pm
| Quote (Splurk @ Aug. 11 2009, 5:53 pm) | No one has still replied to this simple empirical given:
- US of Ey is the only developed country without universal health care
- US of Ey has a remarkably lower life expectancy compared to countries that do have universal health care, but have a much smaller oeconomy per capita. |
Simple Big business has corrupted the United States govenment. |
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Vice_Adm_Baxter GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 8:58 pm
| Quote (Splurk @ Aug. 11 2009, 5:55 pm) | | Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 11 2009, 9:53 pm) | | Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Aug. 11 2009, 1:28 pm) | That article only reinforced the notion that the me first's: screw everyone else people are in fact greedy pricks.
Boo hoo that some people make the most money and pay the most taxes. deal with it. You dont see me crying about it and i pay close to 6 figures in taxes some years, and thats just federal income tax.
I will say this though, i find it hilarious that people still dont get that corporations in america used to bare the largest burden of taxes once upon a time. If you me first people would stop being so greedy you would figure out that the very people you defend are the same people that shifted the tax burden on poor you. |
?
PC ?I make and pay taxes on an income in the mid 6 digits. The people in here complaining about the proposed legislation have no clue as to what they are talking about to be quite honest. As far as I know I am the ONLY person on these message boards to have actually read the bill with my own eyes. I know that they are going to call me a liar and that I have no clue as to what it represents. To them I can only say two things:
1. Get a PhD and 2 Masters degrees
2. Maybe I will consider their opinions at that point. |
What are yours in? |
PhD. in computer hard ware design and two masters of science. I work for Intel corp. as a microchip designer. |
chr3335 GROUP: Members POSTS: 7914 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 9:24 pm
| Quote (Splurk @ Aug. 10 2009, 9:53 pm) | No one has still replied to this simple empirical given:
- US of Ey is the only developed country without universal health care
- US of Ey has a remarkably lower life expectancy compared to countries that do have universal health care, but have a much smaller oeconomy per capita. |
well why should I care that every other developed country has universal health care. Peer pressure is never a good reason to add anything. | Quote | | US of Ey has a remarkably lower life expectancy compared to countries that do have universal health care, but have a much smaller oeconomy per capita. |
only if you include all non natural causes of death. |
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PhantomCrunk007 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5088 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 9:32 pm
| Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 11 2009, 6:24 am) | | Quote | | US of Ey has a remarkably lower life expectancy compared to countries that do have universal health care, but have a much smaller oeconomy per capita. |
only if you include all non natural causes of death. |
Even taking that into consideration it's a crime that the USA, supposedly the best country isn't in the top 5. |
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PhantomCrunk007 GROUP: Members POSTS: 5088 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 9:35 pm
| Quote (Corwin8 @ Aug. 11 2009, 5:29 am) | And please don't offer up how the rich, evil, corprate machine chewed you up and spit you out. We get it.
You are not the first nor shall you be the last. The diffrence is weather you can move on and succeed, or continue to blame others for all the problems you went through. I think I know how this will go. |
Or be like you and say, "thank you, sir. May I have another?" as they give it to you up the ass. |
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Vice_Adm_Baxter GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Aug. 11 2009, 9:38 pm
| Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Aug. 11 2009, 6:35 pm) | | Quote (Corwin8 @ Aug. 11 2009, 5:29 am) | And please don't offer up how the rich, evil, corprate machine chewed you up and spit you out. We get it.
You are not the first nor shall you be the last. The diffrence is weather you can move on and succeed, or continue to blame others for all the problems you went through. I think I know how this will go. |
Or be like you and say, "thank you, sir. May I have another?" as they give it to you up the ass. |
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