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X-Wing fighter vs Klingon Bird Of Prey

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 25 2009, 3:19 pm

Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 23 2009, 1:52 am)
generally the fighters have a similar senor package to the capital ships just on a smaller scale. ¿I mean Luke's X-wing was able to scan Degoba for life and technology in TESB but we dont really have many examples of x wing senors in combat due to the heavy jamming.

Yeah, I can imagine an X-Wing would have sensors that can detect cloaked ships.  :eyesroll:

If only they had sensors powerful enough to fire a torpedo into a "big hole" on the Death Star. That scene alone kinda paints the picture that computer power in the SW universe wasn't that great.

LtCmdrHanson

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POSTS: 2606

Report this Aug. 25 2009, 4:06 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 2:19 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 23 2009, 1:52 am)
generally the fighters have a similar senor package to the capital ships just on a smaller scale. ?I mean Luke's X-wing was able to scan Degoba for life and technology in TESB but we dont really have many examples of x wing senors in combat due to the heavy jamming.

Yeah, I can imagine an X-Wing would have sensors that can detect cloaked ships. ¿:eyesroll:

If only they had sensors powerful enough to fire a torpedo into a "big hole" on the Death Star. That scene alone kinda paints the picture that computer power in the SW universe wasn't that great.

In the EU, the X-Wings can do anything, didn't ya know Cpt.? lol :)

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Aug. 25 2009, 4:07 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 8:19 pm)
Yeah, I can imagine an X-Wing would have sensors that can detect cloaked ships. ¿:eyesroll:

If only they had sensors powerful enough to fire a torpedo into a "big hole" on the Death Star. That scene alone kinda paints the picture that computer power in the SW universe wasn't that great.


To be fair though, the "big hole" on the Death Star was actually a very, very small hole 2 metres wide, which the X-Wings had to not just hit, but actually get a torpedo (which was only slightly smaller than the hole itself) to go down it, while approaching at high speed under fire and heavy jamming.

A question though to the thread in general - do we have examples of conventional Star Wars starfighter sensors being able to passively detect objects of approximately BoP size by their gravity distortion? In the Thrawn trilogy, I was under the impression that they had to get in special CGT sensors (which wouldn't be standard equipment for an X-Wing) to detect Thrawn's cloaked asteroids by their gravity distortions; surely it would have been unnecessary to do this if starfighters commonly possessed sensors capable of detecting gravity distortions of BoP sized objects?

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 25 2009, 4:11 pm

Quote (LtCmdrHanson @ Aug. 24 2009, 9:06 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 2:19 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 23 2009, 1:52 am)
generally the fighters have a similar senor package to the capital ships just on a smaller scale. ?I mean Luke's X-wing was able to scan Degoba for life and technology in TESB but we dont really have many examples of x wing senors in combat due to the heavy jamming.

Yeah, I can imagine an X-Wing would have sensors that can detect cloaked ships. ?:eyesroll:

If only they had sensors powerful enough to fire a torpedo into a "big hole" on the Death Star. That scene alone kinda paints the picture that computer power in the SW universe wasn't that great.

In the EU, the X-Wings can do anything, didn't ya know Cpt.? lol :)

INDEED

:O

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 25 2009, 4:12 pm

Quote (Vorta_the_point @ Aug. 24 2009, 9:07 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 8:19 pm)
Yeah, I can imagine an X-Wing would have sensors that can detect cloaked ships. ?:eyesroll:

If only they had sensors powerful enough to fire a torpedo into a "big hole" on the Death Star. That scene alone kinda paints the picture that computer power in the SW universe wasn't that great.


To be fair though, the "big hole" on the Death Star was actually a very, very small hole 2 metres wide, which the X-Wings had to not just hit, but actually get a torpedo (which was only slightly smaller than the hole itself) to go down it, while approaching at high speed under fire and heavy jamming.

A question though to the thread in general - do we have examples of conventional Star Wars starfighter sensors being able to passively detect objects of approximately BoP size by their gravity distortion? In the Thrawn trilogy, I was under the impression that they had to get in special CGT sensors (which wouldn't be standard equipment for an X-Wing) to detect Thrawn's cloaked asteroids by their gravity distortions; surely it would have been unnecessary to do this if starfighters commonly possessed sensors capable of detecting gravity distortions of BoP sized objects?

In that case surely a BoP could just jam the sensors of any Wars ship and just sneak up undetected any way?

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Aug. 25 2009, 4:26 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 9:12 pm)
In that case surely a BoP could just jam the sensors of any Wars ship and just sneak up undetected any way?


It depends; do they possess sensor jamming technology? I can't off-hand remember anything other than communication jamming being used in Star Trek space combat, but my limited knowledge is far from encyclopaedic and I could very well be wrong.

Aratech

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POSTS: 609

Report this Aug. 25 2009, 5:31 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 3:15 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 23 2009, 2:47 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

It was a Prototype, and if Chang hadn't messed around he could have destroyed the Enterprise.

Only because the Enterprise didn't know how to track him.  SW missiles have an emission's tracker as one of their default gadgets.

captbates

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Report this Aug. 25 2009, 5:36 pm

Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 24 2009, 10:31 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 3:15 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 23 2009, 2:47 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

It was a Prototype, and if Chang hadn't messed around he could have destroyed the Enterprise.

Only because the Enterprise didn't know how to track him. ¿SW missiles have an emission's tracker as one of their default gadgets.

That's assuming that the missiles would be set to track a cloaked BoP's Emissions (if there were even any) which would no doubt be different to ships from SW.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 25 2009, 7:14 pm

Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 6:17 pm)
Even in the 24th century, cloaking devices are vulnerable to detection from subspace listening posts, gravitic sensors, and tachyon detection grids. Their vulnerability to subspace listening posts means that they must still "leak" enough subspace energy to be detected even at many light years' range. Their vulnerability to gravitic sensors means that they have no way of concealing the space-time distortion created by their presence, which would easily be picked up by the X-Wing's FTL sensors. Their vulnerability to the tachyon detection grids means that they can bend visible light around the ship but not the fabric of space-time itself, (as is commonly assumed by some Trektards) because tachyons would be bound to follow the lines of space-time just like anything else.

Incorrect,

You forgot about the Interphasic cloaking device.


Interphase generator Special cloaking device that manipulates the molecular structure of matter in a way that it is transferred ("phased") into a quasi-parallel space. Matter cloaked with an interphase generator is not only invisible to conventional natural and artificial sensors, it is also able to penetrate normal matter (TNG: "The Next Phase", "Pegasus").

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/treknology/treknology-i.htm

Let's see how many times this gets passed over.....

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 25 2009, 7:19 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 2:36 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 24 2009, 10:31 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 3:15 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 23 2009, 2:47 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

It was a Prototype, and if Chang hadn't messed around he could have destroyed the Enterprise.

Only because the Enterprise didn't know how to track him. ?SW missiles have an emission's tracker as one of their default gadgets.

That's assuming that the missiles would be set to track a cloaked BoP's Emissions (if there were even any) which would no doubt be different to ships from SW.

There are a lot of assumptions in regards to if the Empire could even detect Federation ships. Everyone keeps citing numbers and firepower this and that. The reality is a good commander with a great strategy will win every time. Those seem to be the two element the Empire lacks the most.

chr3335

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POSTS: 7914

Report this Aug. 25 2009, 9:26 pm

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 24 2009, 8:19 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 2:36 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 24 2009, 10:31 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 3:15 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 23 2009, 2:47 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

It was a Prototype, and if Chang hadn't messed around he could have destroyed the Enterprise.

Only because the Enterprise didn't know how to track him. ?SW missiles have an emission's tracker as one of their default gadgets.

That's assuming that the missiles would be set to track a cloaked BoP's Emissions (if there were even any) which would no doubt be different to ships from SW.

There are a lot of assumptions in regards to if the Empire could even detect Federation ships. Everyone keeps citing numbers and firepower this and that. The reality is a good commander with a great strategy will win every time. Those seem to be the two element the Empire lacks the most.

umm no the federation is out number several hundred to one ( and that is being nice).  The firepower number indicate that Star Wars ships can one hit kill just about everything in the star trek universe.  The star wars vessels have a huge FLS advantage able to cross a galaxy in a matter of weeks at the most.  There is no way a good commander can over come these strategic and tactial disadvantages.  Hell even if we go crazy and say the federation kills 50 star wars vessels for ever one trek ship destroyed the vast numerical advantage will eventually over whelm the federation.

This is also allowing for the fact that the Federation actually has competent commanders which i haven't seen.

LtCmdrHanson

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POSTS: 2606

Report this Aug. 25 2009, 11:38 pm

Well, if we go by the poll...looks like the BoP won, so go home..nothing to see here lol :)

Lucifer_

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Report this Aug. 26 2009, 1:54 am

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 25 2009, 7:14 pm)
Incorrect,...

What's incorrect? Those are canon events portrayed onscreen.

Quote


You forgot about the Interphasic cloaking device.


Lost technology which wasn't even created by the Klingons. Got any more red herrings?

Aratech

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POSTS: 609

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 10:18 am

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 5:36 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 24 2009, 10:31 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 3:15 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 23 2009, 2:47 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

It was a Prototype, and if Chang hadn't messed around he could have destroyed the Enterprise.

Only because the Enterprise didn't know how to track him. ?SW missiles have an emission's tracker as one of their default gadgets.

That's assuming that the missiles would be set to track a cloaked BoP's Emissions (if there were even any) which would no doubt be different to ships from SW.

It's engines give off an ion emission. This we know per UC.  Prototorps and Conc missiles have sensors that track these.   Ergo, cloaking won't help here.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 26 2009, 1:19 pm

Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 25 2009, 3:18 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 5:36 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 24 2009, 10:31 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 25 2009, 3:15 pm)
Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 23 2009, 2:47 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

It was a Prototype, and if Chang hadn't messed around he could have destroyed the Enterprise.

Only because the Enterprise didn't know how to track him. ?SW missiles have an emission's tracker as one of their default gadgets.

That's assuming that the missiles would be set to track a cloaked BoP's Emissions (if there were even any) which would no doubt be different to ships from SW.

It's engines give off an ion emission. This we know per UC. ¿Prototorps and Conc missiles have sensors that track these. ¿ Ergo, cloaking won't help here.

I wasn't  referring to the Ion emissions, but the warp drive.
As I've said before cloaked ships can hide their emissions (obviously the prototype in VI was an exception) or the cloaking device wouldn't work.

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