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X-Wing fighter vs Klingon Bird Of Prey

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 22 2009, 2:59 pm

Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 21 2009, 4:54 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 20 2009, 5:42 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 20 2009, 9:32 pm)
Quote (vulcan7 @ Aug. 19 2009, 11:59 pm)
With the cloaking device the x wing fighter wouldnt stand a cnage against the BOP.it will never know where it will be when it decloaks.

As stated before cloaked ships can be tracked by their drive emissions. ?So this is a no go.

Only if the cloaked ship is experimental, and outdated by Trek standards being from the TOS movie era, and only using very specialist sensors, but I'm sure it's canon that the Empire can track a cloacked Trek BoP, right? ?:laugh:

Even in later years cloacks have been "defeated" and then upgraded to become undetectable.

No way an X-Wing would have the Tech to find a cloacked BoP ?:whatthe:

Regardless of how good the cloak is drive emissions still escape other wise the ship couldn't move.

You do know that in Trek these Drive emissions can be disguised, or completely hidden.

chr3335

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Report this Aug. 22 2009, 9:56 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 21 2009, 3:59 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 21 2009, 4:54 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 20 2009, 5:42 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 20 2009, 9:32 pm)
Quote (vulcan7 @ Aug. 19 2009, 11:59 pm)
With the cloaking device the x wing fighter wouldnt stand a cnage against the BOP.it will never know where it will be when it decloaks.

As stated before cloaked ships can be tracked by their drive emissions. ?So this is a no go.

Only if the cloaked ship is experimental, and outdated by Trek standards being from the TOS movie era, and only using very specialist sensors, but I'm sure it's canon that the Empire can track a cloacked Trek BoP, right? ?:laugh:

Even in later years cloacks have been "defeated" and then upgraded to become undetectable.

No way an X-Wing would have the Tech to find a cloacked BoP ?:whatthe:

Regardless of how good the cloak is drive emissions still escape other wise the ship couldn't move.

You do know that in Trek these Drive emissions can be disguised, or completely hidden.

How?

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 23 2009, 4:11 am

Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 22 2009, 2:56 am)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 21 2009, 3:59 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 21 2009, 4:54 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 20 2009, 5:42 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 20 2009, 9:32 pm)
Quote (vulcan7 @ Aug. 19 2009, 11:59 pm)
With the cloaking device the x wing fighter wouldnt stand a cnage against the BOP.it will never know where it will be when it decloaks.

As stated before cloaked ships can be tracked by their drive emissions. ?So this is a no go.

Only if the cloaked ship is experimental, and outdated by Trek standards being from the TOS movie era, and only using very specialist sensors, but I'm sure it's canon that the Empire can track a cloacked Trek BoP, right? ?:laugh:

Even in later years cloacks have been "defeated" and then upgraded to become undetectable.

No way an X-Wing would have the Tech to find a cloacked BoP ?:whatthe:

Regardless of how good the cloak is drive emissions still escape other wise the ship couldn't move.

You do know that in Trek these Drive emissions can be disguised, or completely hidden.

How?

Well, we see it happen in various episodes.

Lucifer_

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POSTS: 12834

Report this Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am

Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

captbates

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 5:06 am

Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 22 2009, 9:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Lol.... are you kidding?

It's well known, and often seen that ships can mask, or alter their warp/ion emissions. If a cloacked ship could not hide it's emmissions then any Starship could simply do what Kirk's Enterprise did with the modified Torpedo in VI.
Cloaks are involved in an arms race, becoming undetectable until a new technology finds a way of detection, taking us to the Romulan/Reman Scimitar with its perfect cloak.

Can you name another time when a cloaked ship is visible to the naked eye? and I'm pretty sure the very same BoP was cloaked in the middle of a San Francisco park, where it was completely invisible to the naked eye

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 10:42 am

Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 1:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Oh! You mean like in the TNG Episode 'The Pegasus' where the USS Pegasus had an interphasic cloak which was invisible to sensors since it could go out of phase with normal space......

here is some info:

Quote
Interphase generator Special cloaking device that manipulates the molecular structure of matter in a way that it is transferred ("phased") into a quasi-parallel space. Matter cloaked with an interphase generator is not only invisible to conventional natural and artificial sensors, it is also able to penetrate normal matter (TNG: "The Next Phase", "Pegasus").


Linky....

chr3335

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POSTS: 7914

Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:20 am

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 22 2009, 6:06 am)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 22 2009, 9:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Lol.... are you kidding?

It's well known, and often seen that ships can mask, or alter their warp/ion emissions. If a cloacked ship could not hide it's emmissions then any Starship could simply do what Kirk's Enterprise did with the modified Torpedo in VI.
Cloaks are involved in an arms race, becoming undetectable until a new technology finds a way of detection, taking us to the Romulan/Reman Scimitar with its perfect cloak.

Can you name another time when a cloaked ship is visible to the naked eye? and I'm pretty sure the very same BoP was cloaked in the middle of a San Francisco park, where it was completely invisible to the naked eye

Or it is more than likely one of thous one time only trek powers the writers put in and forget they have.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:39 am

Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 22 2009, 4:20 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 22 2009, 6:06 am)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 22 2009, 9:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Lol.... are you kidding?

It's well known, and often seen that ships can mask, or alter their warp/ion emissions. If a cloacked ship could not hide it's emmissions then any Starship could simply do what Kirk's Enterprise did with the modified Torpedo in VI.
Cloaks are involved in an arms race, becoming undetectable until a new technology finds a way of detection, taking us to the Romulan/Reman Scimitar with its perfect cloak.

Can you name another time when a cloaked ship is visible to the naked eye? and I'm pretty sure the very same BoP was cloaked in the middle of a San Francisco park, where it was completely invisible to the naked eye

Or it is more than likely one of thous one time only trek powers the writers put in and forget they have.

If you mean that they should have remembered  a cloacked  BoP isn't visible by just looking at the view screen, then yeah,  I agree.  :D

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 pm

Quote (LtCmdrHanson @ Aug. 20 2009, 10:11 am)
Vorta,

I got the 'blind spot' info from SW.com itself. And isn't Wookiepedia like Memory Alpha that anyone can edit?

I guess I would have thought that SW.com being offical and all would have had the specs and such. I was just trying to bring something to this discussion. I'll sit in the corner now :)

Hey man, no worries! :D Please keep bringing things to the discussion, it's great to have more people who use sources to justify their arguments!

Wookieepedia is like Memory Alpha in that it's unofficial (and therefore not infallible), but it tends to cover every scrap of the latest information available, whereas the StarWars.com databank only often gives an (admittedly still quite detailed) overview and isn't updated as frequently.


Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 21 2009, 9:32 pm)
As stated before cloaked ships can be tracked by their drive emissions. ¿So this is a no go.


Do regular X-Wings actually have the means to exploit this, though? I wasn't aware their sensors were configured detect things like that; I mean, the technology to do so obviously exists in Star Wars, and there are more sophisticated means of countering cloaking devices like the CGT devices, but an X-Wing wouldn't actually have access to those normally, would it?

chr3335

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 8:52 pm

generally the fighters have a similar senor package to the capital ships just on a smaller scale.  I mean Luke's X-wing was able to scan Degoba for life and technology in TESB but we dont really have many examples of x wing senors in combat due to the heavy jamming.

Lucifer_

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POSTS: 12834

Report this Aug. 23 2009, 9:17 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 23 2009, 5:06 am)
Lol.... are you kidding?

No, it's called presenting evidence when asked for it.

Quote
Can you name another time when a cloaked ship is visible to the naked eye?


Star Trek V...Klaa's BOP produces the same distortion effect as seen in ST3.

Quote
...and I'm pretty sure the very same BoP was cloaked in the middle of a San Francisco park, where it was completely invisible to the naked eye


Keep in mind that ship was completely stationary. Even when the Bounty was hovering over the whalers (also completely invisible) its relative velocity was near zero. Trek combat typically takes place at speeds that are fractions of c.

Even in the 24th century, cloaking devices are vulnerable to detection from subspace listening posts, gravitic sensors, and tachyon detection grids. Their vulnerability to subspace listening posts means that they must still "leak" enough subspace energy to be detected even at many light years' range. Their vulnerability to gravitic sensors means that they have no way of concealing the space-time distortion created by their presence, which would easily be picked up by the X-Wing's FTL sensors. Their vulnerability to the tachyon detection grids means that they can bend visible light around the ship but not the fabric of space-time itself, (as is commonly assumed by some Trektards) because tachyons would be bound to follow the lines of space-time just like anything else.

Captain_Kayzek_Juno_TGCO

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 10:51 pm

Ive got a really simple solution for the BOP to maneuver while cloaked and still be undetected...USE THRUSTERS NOT IMPULSE!

The emissions detectable are from either impulse or warp systems. Which the Federation was even unaware of for a long time.

Anyway, as some people have pointed out, the X-Wing is a highly maneuverable craft, but I don't think it is THAT maneuverable. While moving at high velocity, numerous Star Wars fighter craft as well as larger craft have been seen to outmaneuver it. But even older generation BOPs were seen to be able to turn on a dime even at high velocity.

Aratech

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Report this Aug. 24 2009, 9:47 am

Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

captbates

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Report this Aug. 25 2009, 3:12 pm

:eyesroll:

Quote
Keep in mind that ship was completely stationary. Even when the Bounty was hovering over the whalers (also completely invisible) its relative velocity was near zero. Trek combat typically takes place at speeds that are fractions of c.


If your saying that the cloaks only work when the ships are not moving, that's BS.

;)

For all the detection tech we know exists in the 24th century, the Scimitar in NEM was undetectable to the most advanced ship in the Starfleet with a "perfect" cloak. So it looks like it would be possible to conceal all emissions after all, eh? :logical:

captbates

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Report this Aug. 25 2009, 3:15 pm

Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 23 2009, 2:47 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ Aug. 23 2009, 4:43 am)
Start citing examples or it didn't happen.

I feel it's fair to mention that many Trek cloaks are visible to the naked eye. Sulu even snipes Kruge's BOP in TSFS while pointing his finger at the viewscreen.

Especially given that in Undiscovered Country, the emissions from the engines are exactly what is used to destroy General Chang's 'perfect' cloak equipped BoP.

"Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe" indeed.

It was a Prototype, and if Chang hadn't messed around he could have destroyed the Enterprise.

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