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X-Wing fighter vs Klingon Bird Of Prey

> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (captbates @ Aug. 17 2009, 1:08 am)> id="QUOTE">The statement could simply just compare life froms at different levels of evolution, where Humans are still using technology, the Q have evolved beyond the need for it, but one day humans will do the same. This is backed up by Q himself from an earlier episode.

Aratech

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Report this Aug. 16 2009, 9:22 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 16 2009, 8:55 pm)
Your still not impressing me.
Q took Voyager back to a point where the universe didn't even exist, that alone seems to out do these others. From what you say they are all limited by the universe itself, Q is not. Manipulation of space/time is nowhere near total control of the universal space time contuniuum (and beyond)

The nature of Q in sci-Fi kinda makes them hard or impossible to defeat, the only way thats gonna happen is if the writers do what they did to the Borg (and 8472)

The Q are no more magic than say, the Chaos Gods, who do what you've just described for literal shits and giggles. ?They are not limited by the universe. The Xeelee made the universe their b!tch at the very beginning of this particular universe. ?They have been around since before its existence. ?The Chaos Gods and the Warp are much the same.


At any rate, we're getting off topic.  OP: I need to know the X-wing's loadout. The debate hinges upon this fact.

chr3335

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Report this Aug. 16 2009, 11:29 pm

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 15 2009, 9:15 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 15 2009, 8:13 am)
Don't forget the Ancients for star gate, and the various cosmic beings in the marvel universe (Galacticus, the Celestials, Eternity, ETC). ?The only guy I can recall from the DC universe is the other dimenstional dude from superman who's only weakness is saying his name backwards Mr. Mxyzptlk

They are indeed powerful, but again none of them posses the ability to just simply create an entirely new reality with a thought, Q can.

Mr. Mxyzptlk can from the DC universe And Eternity from the marvel universe can.

Cosmic_entities_(Marvel_Comics)

Cosmic_entities_(DC_Comics) DC doesn't seem to have as many.

chr3335

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Report this Aug. 16 2009, 11:32 pm

Quote (Aratech @ Aug. 15 2009, 10:22 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Aug. 16 2009, 8:55 pm)
Your still not impressing me.
Q took Voyager back to a point where the universe didn't even exist, that alone seems to out do these others. From what you say they are all limited by the universe itself, Q is not. Manipulation of space/time is nowhere near total control of the universal space time contuniuum (and beyond)

The nature of Q in sci-Fi kinda makes them hard or impossible to defeat, the only way thats gonna happen is if the writers do what they did to the Borg (and 8472)

The Q are no more magic than say, the Chaos Gods, who do what you've just described for literal shits and giggles. ?They are not limited by the universe. The Xeelee made the universe their b!tch at the very beginning of this particular universe. ?They have been around since before its existence. ?The Chaos Gods and the Warp are much the same.


At any rate, we're getting off topic. ¿OP: I need to know the X-wing's loadout. The debate hinges upon this fact.

The x wing has four laser cannons and two proton torpedo launchers.  I assume the weapons are comparable to what the Slave I have.

Aratech

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Report this Aug. 16 2009, 11:38 pm

If that's the case, then the BoP loses.  Those torps will have nearly four times the yield of a standard photon torpedo, and they're faster and more maneuverable to boot. In short, the X-wing's got the equivalent of a little more than 20 photon torpedoes with him, and they're not going to miss.

LtCmdrHanson

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Report this Aug. 17 2009, 3:48 am

So in this battle, no one seems to have written of the BoP's cloaking tech which if used properly  - it could decloak behind the X-wing and destroy it.

But wait - a SW fan will respond with - 'The X-wing can see thru the cloak' or something similar.

LtCmdrHanson

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Report this Aug. 17 2009, 5:47 am

http://www.starwars.com/databank/technology/protontorpedo/

This info on proton torps, obviously comes from an offical source, I don't know how high up on SW's canon level it is, but it doesn't say anything about weapon yields at all, unless you count something about a nergon-14 explosive needing to be used in conjunction w/ the 'proton scattering warhead'..

So how does an article from SW.com not have these amazingly high weapons yields?

And this from Wookiepedia..

The exact nature of Proton Torpedo warheads are not fully understood, since few sources talk about the actual nature of the warhead. However two separate authors have in the LOTF[1][2] series stated that they use a baradium main charge, detonated by a Proton Detonator. Some sources state that the blast is focused into a tight cone to maximize effectiveness and minimize collateral damage and energy leakage away from the target. However, most sources particularly those detailing the effects of a hit on a starfighter, have these weapons producing a more uniform detonation. This is particularly demonstrated when Wedge Antilles used one such weapon to destroy a concrete tube, the Torpedo passed through the tube and detonated ten meters away, yet still produced a fireball sufficient to engulf the tube.[3]

So..as I understand it..the previous info was 'technobabble', and I believe any info on laser cannons would produce similar results.

Again from Wookiepedia..

The Taim & Bak KX9 laser cannon was a powerful laser cannon produced by the Taim & Bak weapons company and could operate both in and out of space and were considerably more powerful than those on the various TIE models.

The laser cannon was used in the T-65 X-wing starfighter. Four of these laser cannons, one mounted at the end of each of the X-wing's S-foils, provided the starfighter with considerable punch. Located near the tip of the KX9 was a magnetic flashback suppressor, which stopped any wayward blaster bolts from damaging the cannon. These powerful cannons could be fired singly, in offset pairs, or all at once.

The KX9's value was also recognized by the Imperials. The giant AT-AT walkers had the lasers fitted to their 'head' which acted as a command bridge. The KX9 cannons formed the 'fangs' of the mechanical beast and could accurately fire up to 1km away. The command bridge could twist and turn so this also afforded the laser cannons with increased maneuverability.

This from SW.com -

Four identical Taim & Bak KX9 laser cannons are mounted on each S-foil wingtip. During combat situations, the S-foils split into attack position, deploying in an "X" configuration. This increases the fighter's field of fire, and ensures that all lasers target in to a specific "zero" point, typically half a kilometer from the fighter. The lasers are powered by the engine power converters and are fed by dynoric energy lines that run the surface of the S-foils. A number of X-wings used Taim & Bak IX4 laser cannons instead. The New Republic era fighters employ even more powerful cannons. The laser cannon efficiency is one of the hallmarks of the X-wing starfighter. At full recharge, this allows for continuous fire. 'Dynoric' energy?

Again, weapon yields are not mentioned.

I also read that one of an X-wing's primary weaknesses is a blind spot at the rear of its belly, so this goes with my previous post about the BoP cloaking and targeting the X-Wing.

IMO, this info isn't very noteworthy at all and shows that a BoP would be the victor, with a Klingon Captain possibly just battering away til its shields collapsed.

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Aug. 17 2009, 3:19 pm

> id="QUOTE">It does?
We know that the Q can manipulate the universe, and anything in it, what your describing doesn't really come close to having a chance, powerful yeah, but nothing like a Q.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (captbates @ Aug. 17 2009, 1:08 am)


You don't seem to have really given any specific examples of why what I suggested wouldn't work; could you elaborate, please? The Arisians are more intelligent than the Q, can predict events across not just universes but across different space-time continuums, and only need to make mental contact with the Q (a feat they can do across dimensions) in order to take over their minds, effectively defeating them (and incidentally gaining access to the total knowledge of the Q).

Furthermore, the Arisians cannot be destroyed by any physical means, as they themselves are not physical in nature; since they have no physical forms, but are composed of mental energy, only mental attacks can kill them. The Q can manipulate space as much as they want and cause all sorts of gravitic anomalies, pocket dimensions and the like, but they can't affect Arisians unless they try to affect them mentally - an arena in which they would lose.

Remember, the Q are not omnipotent; even they have limits.


border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (captbates @ Aug. 17 2009, 1:08 am)


However, we know for a fact that they have not evolved beyond the need of technology, as we are shown a concrete example of this technology in the form of Q weapons.

Also remember that Q's commentary can be highly suspect at times, considering that he's an egotist and a liar; he refers to himself as omnipotent several times despite the fact that Quinn reveals the Q aren't omnipotent and shouldn't be thought of as such.



Aaand... to get my post slightly more back on topic... :blush:



border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (LtCmdrHanson @ Aug. 17 2009, 8:48 am)> id="QUOTE">So how does an article from SW.com not have these amazingly high weapons yields?

The StarWars.com databank is only supposed to be an overview and is not comprehensive by any means; compare it to a Wookieepedia article and you'll notice the difference in detail.

Regarding the proton torpedoes, I believe the ball park figure may be being estimated by the observed output of Jango Fett's missiles and an event where proton torpedoes destroyed a small mountain range, although I don't know the specifics.


border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (LtCmdrHanson @ Aug. 17 2009, 8:48 am)> id="QUOTE">So in this battle, no one seems to have written of the BoP's cloaking tech which if used properly ?- it could decloak behind the X-wing and destroy it.

However, unless it's a fancy-dan advanced BoP like General Chang's ship, doesn't it take several seconds to de-cloak before it can start firing, and is visible to sensors as a distortion mid-way through de-cloak? An experienced pilot would be able to take evasive manoevres from such a delay - though of course, a less experienced one might not.

I think a lot of this match-up will also depend on how experienced the crews are - a rookiee X-Wing pilot against an experienced Klingon gunnery crew would tip the scales the other way even with the X-Wing's greater manoevrability.

Regarding the X-Wing blind-spot, I can't find any reference to it on Wookieepedia, though I must admit I have vague memories of hearing something similar; I think however it might have been a visual blind spot rather than a sensor one (occurring in the battle against the Death Star as the station's sensor jamming meant the pilots had to rely on visuals a lot). I also think it would only really be a relevant weakness against other fighters; a capital ship like the BoP would be too large to fit into it at the normal Star Trek / Star Wars engagement ranges. There's also the fact that the Klingons wouldn't actually know about the blind-spot, anymore than the X-Wing pilot would know about the cloak.

chr3335

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Report this Aug. 17 2009, 8:08 pm

Quote (LtCmdrHanson @ Aug. 16 2009, 4:48 am)
So in this battle, no one seems to have written of the BoP's cloaking tech which if used properly ¿- it could decloak behind the X-wing and destroy it.

But wait - a SW fan will respond with - 'The X-wing can see thru the cloak' or something similar.

No they can't see though the cloak however it has been established that SW vessels can track cloaked ships via drive emissions (and has been done on trek before with a torpedo but don't remember the episode).

Aratech

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Report this Aug. 18 2009, 12:36 pm

Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 17 2009, 8:08 pm)
Quote (LtCmdrHanson @ Aug. 16 2009, 4:48 am)
So in this battle, no one seems to have written of the BoP's cloaking tech which if used properly ?- it could decloak behind the X-wing and destroy it.

But wait - a SW fan will respond with - 'The X-wing can see thru the cloak' or something similar.

No they can't see though the cloak however it has been established that SW vessels can track cloaked ships via drive emissions (and has been done on trek before with a torpedo but don't remember the episode).

It wasn't an episode. They did that in Undiscovered Country at the climax of the film.  Its how they locked onto Chang's cloaked ship.

LtCmdrHanson

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Report this Aug. 20 2009, 5:11 am

Vorta,

I got the 'blind spot' info from SW.com itself. And isn't Wookiepedia like Memory Alpha that anyone can edit?

I guess I would have thought that SW.com being offical and all would have had the specs and such. I was just trying to bring something to this discussion. I'll sit in the corner now :)

vulcan7

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Report this Aug. 20 2009, 10:59 pm

With the cloaking device the x wing fighter wouldnt stand a cnage against the BOP.it will never know where it will be when it decloaks.

chr3335

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Report this Aug. 21 2009, 4:32 pm

Quote (vulcan7 @ Aug. 19 2009, 11:59 pm)
With the cloaking device the x wing fighter wouldnt stand a cnage against the BOP.it will never know where it will be when it decloaks.

As stated before cloaked ships can be tracked by their drive emissions.  So this is a no go.

captbates

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Report this Aug. 21 2009, 4:42 pm

Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 20 2009, 9:32 pm)
Quote (vulcan7 @ Aug. 19 2009, 11:59 pm)
With the cloaking device the x wing fighter wouldnt stand a cnage against the BOP.it will never know where it will be when it decloaks.

As stated before cloaked ships can be tracked by their drive emissions. ¿So this is a no go.

Only if the cloaked ship is experimental, and outdated by Trek standards being from the TOS movie era, and only using very specialist sensors, but I'm sure it's canon that the Empire can track a cloacked Trek BoP, right?  :laugh:

Even in later years cloacks have been "defeated" and then upgraded to become undetectable.

No way an X-Wing would have the Tech to find a cloacked BoP  :whatthe:

chr3335

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Report this Aug. 22 2009, 11:54 am

Quote (captbates @ Aug. 20 2009, 5:42 pm)
Quote (chr3335 @ Aug. 20 2009, 9:32 pm)
Quote (vulcan7 @ Aug. 19 2009, 11:59 pm)
With the cloaking device the x wing fighter wouldnt stand a cnage against the BOP.it will never know where it will be when it decloaks.

As stated before cloaked ships can be tracked by their drive emissions. ?So this is a no go.

Only if the cloaked ship is experimental, and outdated by Trek standards being from the TOS movie era, and only using very specialist sensors, but I'm sure it's canon that the Empire can track a cloacked Trek BoP, right? ¿:laugh:

Even in later years cloacks have been "defeated" and then upgraded to become undetectable.

No way an X-Wing would have the Tech to find a cloacked BoP ¿:whatthe:

Regardless of how good the cloak is drive emissions still escape other wise the ship couldn't move.

CharlieTucker

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Report this Aug. 22 2009, 2:52 pm

BOP! Bird of prey could take on 3-5 dominion ships.. soooo yeah the klingons would win every time!!

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