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Book Issue

autumntastic

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POSTS: 59

Report this Aug. 05 2009, 10:27 pm

I wanted various fan opinions on spin off books which allegedly take place after a series has ended. In particular, since I am a fan of "Voyager", I regard books like "Full Circle". Since they are not considered canon - as I recall being told - isn't it basically like reading public fan fiction? I heard Janeway dies in one book, which in itself is completely ridiculous, but I was hoping some books didn't honor that random storyline. Are there any good books out there that, regardless if they are just glorified fan fiction in paperback format, really have the feel of the series? I could use insight.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 05 2009, 10:59 pm

If they come from Pocket books they are NOT fan fiction. They are authorised matterial. They are not canon, yet they are very close in terms of story.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 12:12 am

Quote (autumntastic @ Aug. 05 2009, 10:27 pm)
Are there any good books out there that, regardless if they are just glorified fan fiction in paperback format, really have the feel of the series? I could use insight.

Sounds like you might be after some of the numbered editions. Unfortunately since I haven't read any Voyager books, I can't really say what is good and what is not.

In defence of FF, it's not all bad.

oh yeah and someone will probably find a way to bring Janeway back eventually. Even if it means sticking her back together with staples and superglue. *that was a joke please don't flame me for it*

But as far as post-series stuff is concerned, it seems to me that as a very general rule, the closer it is to the end-date of the series, the more like the series it is likely to feel. (That's just an impression, of course.)

autumntastic

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POSTS: 59

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 12:57 am

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Aug. 05 2009, 10:59 pm)
If they come from Pocket books they are NOT fan fiction. They are authorised matterial. They are not canon, yet they are very close in terms of story.

I am sorry but I don't understand the difference between "authorized yet not canon" and fan fiction. If it isn't canon, then isn't it technically the same as fan fiction? I always assumed fan fiction was just uncanoned stories, much like the novels. Anyway I did find it funny about the Janeway joke. I think killing her off was done in poor taste anyway. I did actually read "Fire Ship" which was a pretty good book. Janeway seemed out of character in some of it, but I enjoyed it. I was also looking into the "Destiny" series which looked pretty good.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 3:59 am

Quote (autumntastic @ Aug. 06 2009, 12:57 am)
I am sorry but I don't understand the difference between "authorized yet not canon" and fan fiction. If it isn't canon, then isn't it technically the same as fan fiction?

Not quite.

fanfiction is, basically, not commissioned or authorised -- generally just one person's interpretation of some aspect of how things would / could / might have gone. The kind of stuff you might find on an internet site.

So there is no involvement of the publishing house, editors etc, or (generally) any person officially associated with the original story / series / product. Fanfic writers -- whatever their motives -- don't make any money off their writing it's usually just purely for fun or whatever else.

The pocket books line and so on are marketed and although they are not technically CANON, they are however official and allowed to sell for money etc -- and as such generally also show up in places like memory beta where fanfiction would not show up.

But -- would I be right in assuming -- there is also a lot more "official" input here from editors etc and from people with interests in making money off the commercial enterprise. And a lot more quality control and restrictions from the publishing house etc than there is for fanfic.

Something like that anyhow. Commissioned novels you find on bookshelves. Fanfiction you find on internet sites.

autumntastic

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POSTS: 59

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 12:22 pm

Ah thank you for clarifying, I understand now. Though in my opinion, if it isn't canon, then it is just glorified fan fiction authorized to sell. lol Though I am sure there are some very good books out there. Until it's canon that poor Janeway met her end, I certainly won't accept that odd branch of storyline. Thank you for your help and your insight.

LtCmdrHanson

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Report this Aug. 17 2009, 6:20 am

Quote (autumntastic @ Aug. 06 2009, 11:22 am)
Ah thank you for clarifying, I understand now. Though in my opinion, if it isn't canon, then it is just glorified fan fiction authorized to sell. lol Though I am sure there are some very good books out there. Until it's canon that poor Janeway met her end, I certainly won't accept that odd branch of storyline. Thank you for your help and your insight.

Autumn,

Since the various series ended and there's pretty much no chance of them coming back at all, the books IMO have done a very good job with maintaining and continuing, and in some cases tying up loose ends after the finales of the series. So in some folks' minds..since the series will never see a tv screen again, it's a logical extension of the onscreen adventures.

IMHO, fan fiction is BAD, in some cases very bad. It seems to exist mainly to promote various characters' relationships, in some fan stories it's way off..like the 'slash' stuff showing a relationship between Kirk and Spock where there isn't one, to give an example. Other stories have an all powerful ship with almost superhuman crew defeating various enemies. It's not Star Trek.

I tend to think of the novels as canon, until something happens (the shows coming back) to contradict them. But that's just my .02 cents on it. Have a good day.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 17 2009, 9:35 am

Quote (LtCmdrHanson @ Aug. 17 2009, 6:20 am)
IMHO, fan fiction is BAD, in some cases very bad. It seems to exist mainly to promote various characters' relationships, in some fan stories it's way off..like the 'slash' stuff showing a relationship between Kirk and Spock where there isn't one, to give an example. Other stories have an all powerful ship with almost superhuman crew defeating various enemies. It's not Star Trek.

*leaves another o.2 cents in the jar*

That seems to be quite an over-generalisation based on only a fraction of the whole.

sonofspock1

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Report this Aug. 22 2009, 11:36 am

I reckon Janeway will come back in The Typhon Pact. We may never see Voyager on tv or the big screen ever again, but I don't think CBS/Paramount would allow the first (regular) female starship captain to be killed off, with no way of her coming back.

WedgeBob

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:51 am

Of course, you also had your first African-American captain in Benjamin Sisko of DS9, and who knows what happened to him.  I think that DS9 was told in comics rather than in paperback textbooks, iirc.

grigori

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 10:55 pm

Quote (sonofspock1 @ Aug. 22 2009, 11:36 am)
I reckon Janeway will come back in The Typhon Pact. We may never see Voyager on tv or the big screen ever again, but I don't think CBS/Paramount would allow the first (regular) female starship captain to be killed off, with no way of her coming back.

Hope you're right. I've avoided the books 'cause I thought that tack was awfully stupid.

In fact, I think Voyager's had the least satisfying post-series treatment of all the lines of books (I really didn't like Golden's writing at all).

Enterprise has by far the best--Martin/Mangels write novels that aren't just good for sci fi, but good as NOVELS. (There's my Lit PhD condescension rearing its ugly head...)

grigori

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 10:56 pm

Quote (WedgeBob @ Aug. 23 2009, 11:51 am)
Of course, you also had your first African-American captain in Benjamin Sisko of DS9, and who knows what happened to him. ¿I think that DS9 was told in comics rather than in paperback textbooks, iirc.

Forgot about that. Sisko's still hanging out with the wormhole aliens, then?

WedgeBob

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POSTS: 436

Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:11 pm

Quote (grigori @ Aug. 23 2009, 10:56 pm)
Quote (WedgeBob @ Aug. 23 2009, 11:51 am)
Of course, you also had your first African-American captain in Benjamin Sisko of DS9, and who knows what happened to him. ?I think that DS9 was told in comics rather than in paperback textbooks, iirc.

Forgot about that. Sisko's still hanging out with the wormhole aliens, then?

Well, hey...  Can't talk about Voyager books before you talk about the series that Voyager spun off of in the first place, can ya?  :D  How DS9 and VOY paralleled each other like that is unknown, but it works to maybe have some conversations between Janeway and Sisko before docking.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:12 pm

Quote (grigori @ Aug. 23 2009, 7:55 pm)

Quote (sonofspock1 @ Aug. 22 2009, 11:36 am)
I reckon Janeway will come back in The Typhon Pact. We may never see Voyager on tv or the big screen ever again, but I don't think CBS/Paramount would allow the first (regular) female starship captain to be killed off, with no way of her coming back.


They killed off Janeway in a manner that seems permanent, yet I for one expect her to be back in the books before the end of next year.

Quote

In fact, I think Voyager's had the least satisfying post-series treatment of all the lines of books (I really didn't like Golden's writing at all).


Her writing was good but the characterizations were way off.

Part of the problem with Voyager's relaunch is what direction do they take it next, since it is the only series with literally a clean slate as far as new stories and adventures can be told.

Quote
Enterprise has by far the best--Martin/Mangels write novels that aren't just good for sci fi, but good as NOVELS. (There's my Lit PhD condescension rearing its ugly head...)

All of the series have them, ENT novels have been very good so far.....  We shall see how long that lasts.

Ironically the best selling TREK novel to date has been the novelization to TREK XI. Which had 5 printings of the book in the course of 5 weeks.

The Vanguard Book based series is probably the best TREK novels to date so far

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Aug. 23 2009, 11:13 pm

Quote (WedgeBob @ Aug. 23 2009, 8:11 pm)
Quote (grigori @ Aug. 23 2009, 10:56 pm)
Quote (WedgeBob @ Aug. 23 2009, 11:51 am)
Of course, you also had your first African-American captain in Benjamin Sisko of DS9, and who knows what happened to him. ?I think that DS9 was told in comics rather than in paperback textbooks, iirc.

Forgot about that. Sisko's still hanging out with the wormhole aliens, then?

Well, hey... ¿Can't talk about Voyager books before you talk about the series that Voyager spun off of in the first place, can ya? ¿:D ¿How DS9 and VOY paralleled each other like that is unknown, but it works to maybe have some conversations between Janeway and Sisko before docking.

Well it gives new meaning to exploring the final frontier!

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