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Wrath Of Khan Question

exeter276

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POSTS: 190

Report this Aug. 05 2009, 9:34 am

In the scene where Kirk enters Spock's quarters and Spock is meditating, Admiral Kirk tells Spock Starfleet wants the Enterprise to investigate Regula 1 and the Enterprise is the only ship in the quadrant.

Now my question is wasn't the Reliant at this time closer to Regula 1 and also in the quadrant? Why wasn't the Reliant sent to investigate Regula 1? The Reliant had Captain Terrell and Commander Chekov to fool/trick Starfleet into thinking the Reliant was still operating normal right? Or Starfleet could have told Admiral Kirk that Reliant is there but not responding so check on Dr. Marcus and Reliant. That way when Enterprise and Reliant meet Kirk would have been more suspicious of Reliant's approach and raised shields sooner.

Commander_Zelkar

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Report this Aug. 05 2009, 9:56 am

Haven't seen the movie in eons, but I thought the Reliant had already been taken over by Khan and was unresponsive when the Enterprise was contacted.

Vger23

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Report this Aug. 05 2009, 10:07 am

1. The "only ship in the quadrent / interception range / etc." plot device was definitely a problem with the Star Trek movies as a whole. Not that that took away from my enjoyment of them, but it is true.

2. The Reliant was supposed to be in deep space searching for lifeless planets, and not "nearby" to the Mutara Sector when the crisis came up...and the term "quadrent" was used very loosely before the TNG-era shows, so who knows what it even means.

3. Kirk should DEFINITELY have been suspicious of the Reliant's approach for any number of reasons, not the least of which was the fact that regulations dictated a certain response.

TWOK is chock-full of plot holes, conveniences, and contrivances. It doesn't change it from being a highly enjoyable film, however...at least not in my mind.

DarthRage

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POSTS: 289

Report this Aug. 05 2009, 11:40 am

Quote (starbase63 @ Aug. 05 2009, 10:18 am)
No matter where you go in Federation space...if you find the USS Enterprise, it will ALWAYS be the ONLY Starfleet vessel to be found for parsecs in any direction...

:laugh:

:logical:

How true...who else than the Enterprise can save the day?

TexasAggie97

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POSTS: 13

Report this Aug. 05 2009, 3:03 pm

Maybe Reliant was being used as a science vessel and not for military-type operations therefore having Enterprise the closest "military" ship in that quadrant.

exeter276

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POSTS: 190

Report this Aug. 05 2009, 3:08 pm

Quote (TexasAggie97 @ Aug. 05 2009, 3:03 pm)
Maybe Reliant was being used as a science vessel and not for military-type operations therefore having Enterprise the closest "military" ship in that quadrant.

Great observation TexasAggie97! That would be a very plausible answer to my question.

IVHoltzman

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POSTS: 0

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 12:12 am

With 40 years of hindsight, it's pretty clear that Roddenberry and the other original planners of the Trek universe made some major goofs, but with very few exceptions they were honest goofs.

Some goofs were brought on by being too rushed during the production season to notice how much they were repeating themselves. The cliche about being the only ship in the area fits right alongside the cliches about redshirts, green women, and declarations that I'm a doctor not a bricklayer, moon shuttle conductor, etc.

Other goofs involved not rationalizing from the start some of the things you'd think would've been obvious, like time-keeping and velocities and distances. If a weapon detonation at a certain yield at a certain distance causes a certain amount of damage in one episode, that's exactly how much it should cause in any other episode. Again, they were too rushed to initially define such parameters, then too rushed to standardize once they were cranking out an episode a week.

Finally, there were the goofs resulting from just having no earthly idea in 1966 how utterly the information revolution would alter everything.

And so long as the original timeline canon was being maintained, it was necessary to live with a lot of these presumptions in order to preserve continuity. The team working on the Enterprise series, for example, did an amazingly good job of making a 1966-vintage Constitution Class starship look exactly the way it had always looked and yet simultaneously make it look a lot more advanced than the NX-01.

A reboot, by definition, offers a chance to fix what was wrong. The reboot of BSG did that in spades, producing a new vision which had all the emotional firepower of the original but none of the stupidity. Closer to home, JJ Abrams was given the best opportunity in forty years to carefully re-think Star Trek and clear the deck of all the awkward little goofs that had accumulated. But instead, he loaded his reboot down with hundreds of new goofs. Forget the departures from prior Trek for a moment. Just look at the absence of common logic. Why does a mining ship bristle with combat weaponry? Why does one need to drill a hole before collapsing a planet? Why is there an ice-covered world right next to sunny Vulcan? The answers are easy... literally. JJ's XI is not a film intended to make an audience think. He's right, this is not your father's Star Trek. Rather, it's Star Trek Pokemon.

FederationJakeship

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POSTS: 114

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 12:33 am

Quote (exeter276 @ Aug. 05 2009, 9:34 am)
In the scene where Kirk enters Spock's quarters and Spock is meditating, Admiral Kirk tells Spock Starfleet wants the Enterprise to investigate Regula 1 and the Enterprise is the only ship in the quadrant.

I was always suspicious of that statement :laugh:

challengerdyer

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POSTS: 887

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 2:31 am

I suppose in the same vein, Admiral Harve Bennett's statement that there were other starships availible in Star Trek V but no experienced Captains is just as implausable.  How do you become a starship Captain if you don't have enough experience?? It just does not make sense.

Cynic321

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POSTS: 8588

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 3:06 am

Quote (IVHoltzman @ Aug. 05 2009, 11:12 pm)
JJ's XI is not a film intended to make an audience think. He's right, this is not your father's Star Trek. Rather, it's Star Trek Pokemon.

I'm ruthlessly stealing that and putting it in my sig.

:cool:

WkdYngMan

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Report this Aug. 06 2009, 3:34 am

Quote (IVHoltzman @ Aug. 06 2009, 12:12 am)
With 40 years of hindsight, it's pretty clear that Roddenberry and the other original planners of the Trek universe made some major goofs, but with very few exceptions they were honest goofs.

Some goofs were brought on by being too rushed during the production season to notice how much they were repeating themselves. The cliche about being the only ship in the area fits right alongside the cliches about redshirts, green women, and declarations that I'm a doctor not a bricklayer, moon shuttle conductor, etc.

So the mistakes came from lack of paying attention?

Quote
A reboot, by definition, offers a chance to fix what was wrong.


A movie reboot, by definition, discards everything before it and starts brand new.

Quote
Forget the departures from prior Trek for a moment. Just look at the absence of common logic. Why does a mining ship bristle with combat weaponry? Why does one need to drill a hole before collapsing a planet? Why is there an ice-covered world right next to sunny Vulcan? The answers are easy... literally. JJ's XI is not a film intended to make an audience think. He's right, this is not your father's Star Trek. Rather, it's Star Trek Pokemon.


The fact that you chose not to think would probably explain why you or and the other naysayers were easily lost with the film.

Jepoy2

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POSTS: 322

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 5:25 am

Did anybody already mentioned how Ceti A5 was mixed up with Ceti A6 in the 23rd century?
We love Star Trek guys. That's why we're here despite the goofs. Of course you know what I mean.

Cynic321

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POSTS: 8588

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 5:57 am

Quote (Jepoy2 @ Aug. 06 2009, 4:25 am)
Did anybody already mentioned how Ceti A5 was mixed up with Ceti A6 in the 23rd century?
We love Star Trek guys. That's why we're here despite the goofs. Of course you know what I mean.

THAT was a HUGE stretch.

Ceti Alpha VI exploded and a starship didn't notice?

That one always got me.

Kirk_vs_Kahn

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POSTS: 319

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 5:59 am

Quote (Vger23 @ Aug. 05 2009, 10:07 am)
1. The "only ship in the quadrent / interception range / etc." plot device was definitely a problem with the Star Trek movies as a whole. Not that that took away from my enjoyment of them, but it is true.

2. The Reliant was supposed to be in deep space searching for lifeless planets, and not "nearby" to the Mutara Sector when the crisis came up...and the term "quadrent" was used very loosely before the TNG-era shows, so who knows what it even means.

3. Kirk should DEFINITELY have been suspicious of the Reliant's approach for any number of reasons, not the least of which was the fact that regulations dictated a certain response.

TWOK is chock-full of plot holes, conveniences, and contrivances. It doesn't change it from being a highly enjoyable film, however...at least not in my mind.

With regards to Kirk which i've highlighted, they make show kirk annoyed with himself that he didn't follow regulation. He even tells saavik to continue quoting regulations. Great scene, and showed Kirks time away from a starship.

exeter276

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 190

Report this Aug. 06 2009, 9:29 am

Quote (challengerdyer @ Aug. 06 2009, 2:31 am)
I suppose in the same vein, Admiral Harve Bennett's statement that there were other starships availible in Star Trek V but no experienced Captains is just as implausable. ¿How do you become a starship Captain if you don't have enough experience?? It just does not make sense.

Well Captain John Harriman from USS Enterprise-B is a perfect example of an unexperienced Captain. I too don't understand how you can be a greenhorn and a starship Captain at the same time, but we have seen it in the Star Trek universe.

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