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The Vulcans in ENT

CornishMonkey

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:13 pm

I don't know, I watch ENT and I can't help thinking that the Vulcans are being portrayed in far too much of an emotional manner. Aside from the lovely Jolene, nobody seems to get it right. You'd think they'd watch some classic Nimoy or Lenard performances before they took to the sound stage, eh?

honeybee1111

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:29 pm

I think T'Pau is about as Vulcan-y as you can get in the Vulcan arc.

It's true the Vulcans in Fusion aren't Vulcan-y but that's the point.

I think the three Vulcans in Carbon Creek are very Vulcan-y, also.

But I will say this, first season Soval might be a little emotional for my taste....

whyaduck

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:32 pm

They also have 100 years to evolve to where Spock and his father are in terms of controlling their emotions.

grigori

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:47 pm

I think ENT depicts what's also a very real side to Vulcans.
However, V'Las in the Vulcan trilogy just didn't sit well with me: he was literally smiling as he gloated when they brought the captured T'Pol in. It's hard to believe he could remain on the High Command with so little self-control.
Also, not ALL Vulcans were arrogant; there was the Ambassador V'Lar, who was not emotional, but she just didn't seem like what we'd grown to expect from Vulcans. But she was simply open-minded, not un-Vulcan.
And since I like Vulcans, I'd hate to think that the likes of the arrogant and repugnant Captain Vanik ARE more representative of the species.

lostshaker

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:48 pm

It seems too often that people watch the Vulcans of ENT with the perspective of following in the foot steps of all the other shows, when in fact ENT's Vulcans preceeded them. The Vulcans had wars and were in a continual struggle with their emotions.  

I always watched the emotionalism of the Vulcans in ENT as a prelude to the Romulan Wars. I thought Romulan infiltration of the Vulcan Government could have been a cause for war.

But even T'Pau had reservations of humans at Spock's ceremony in "Amok Time". And T'Pring, while logical, was a b!tch. She manipulated Spock into killing his captain.

grigori

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:50 pm

Quote (lostshaker @ July 31 2009, 8:48 pm)
I always watched the emotionalism of the Vulcans in ENT as a prelude to the Romulan Wars. I thought Romulan infiltration of the Vulcan Government could have been a cause for war.

Agreed.

Also, wasn't it the whole point of the Syrranite movement that Vulcans of that time had strayed from the teachings of Surak?

They were more in-tune again by the time of Spock.

lostshaker

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:54 pm

Quote (grigori @ July 31 2009, 8:50 pm)
Also, wasn't it the whole point of the Syrranite movement that Vulcans of that time had strayed from the teachings of Surak?

Which is one of many reasons why I loved the Vulcan Trilogy so much. And I too concure that not all Vulcans were being represented.

honeybee1111

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:56 pm

I think one of the things they were going for in ENT was to show that the emotional control seen in TOS did not come easy or cheap for Vulcan society. As early as a century prior, there were still conflicts and difficulties in finding the balance between interacting with each other and the outside world, and controlling their emotions.

As we see, Vulcans are at their most interesting when they keep emotions below the surface, but still have loyalty and affection - and even love - for other people. That was true of Sarek's love for Amanda, Spock's loyalty to Kirk, T'Les & T'Pol's mother/daughter bond/ T'Pol's loyalty to Archer and later her love for Trip. I also see all of these positives in Mestral, who only appeared in one episode. He never seems un-Vulcan to me - but he is curious and adventurous. But I love that he doesn't kiss Maggie back. It's a great touch.

And yes, that was the point of the Syrranite movement, to unite the Vulcans and restore the teaching of Surak. By the time of Spock, Vulcans are more united.

lostshaker

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 9:01 pm

Something else to consider too is how, unlike the other shows that were almost written from a neutral and objective view, ENT was written from the POV of the characters. So we saw the Vulcans from a very subjective, human view point, especially from Archer who was not fond of them at all. That could easily color the situation. But as Archer grew to accept the Vulcans, so did the show. Another piece of evidence that the show centered heavily on the characters.

grigori

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Report this Jul. 31 2009, 9:44 pm

Quote (lostshaker @ July 31 2009, 9:01 pm)
Something else to consider too is how, unlike the other shows that were almost written from a neutral and objective view, ENT was written from the POV of the characters.

I never thought to put that in words before! I've always LIKED that about the show; the characters seemed more real and fallible that way. Moreover, it formed most of the substance of the show, and made the experiences more immediate. I could RELATE to these characters with all their sense of wonder, imperfect comprehension of what's out there, lack of knowledge and tangible prejudices.

I always knew ENT wasn't as pristine and polished as the world of TNG, neither were the characters, but this is another reason why.

CornishMonkey

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Report this Aug. 01 2009, 4:13 am

Quote (grigori @ Aug. 01 2009, 1:47 am)
I think ENT depicts what's also a very real side to Vulcans.
However, V'Las in the Vulcan trilogy just didn't sit well with me: he was literally smiling as he gloated when they brought the captured T'Pol in. It's hard to believe he could remain on the High Command with so little self-control.
Also, not ALL Vulcans were arrogant; there was the Ambassador V'Lar, who was not emotional, but she just didn't seem like what we'd grown to expect from Vulcans. But she was simply open-minded, not un-Vulcan.
And since I like Vulcans, I'd hate to think that the likes of the arrogant and repugnant Captain Vanik ARE more representative of the species.

I am watching those episodes now. This chap V'Las is the one who forced me to create this thread. In terms of my feelings on the subject, he sealed the deal!

CornishMonkey

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Report this Aug. 01 2009, 4:17 am

Quote (lostshaker @ Aug. 01 2009, 2:01 am)
Something else to consider too is how, unlike the other shows that were almost written from a neutral and objective view, ENT was written from the POV of the characters. So we saw the Vulcans from a very subjective, human view point, especially from Archer who was not fond of them at all. That could easily color the situation. But as Archer grew to accept the Vulcans, so did the show. Another piece of evidence that the show centered heavily on the characters.

The writers of ENT only really focussed on three particular characters. The other regulars are "fillers" (for prime example see Travis Mayweather).

By a country mile, the most character driven show was DS9.

WedgeBob

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Report this Aug. 01 2009, 8:10 am

Well, if you watch the TNG episode where Sarek, or was it Silik?  Can't remember, but he was the ambassador of a real old age, and he was invited aboard Enterprise NCC-1701-D, and he somehow showed loads of emotions, like crying during that play in the ship's theater, and growing erratic fits when provoked.  That's another example where Vulcans turn out to be less Vulcan-y.  Also, another example, in Voyager, there was an episode of a young Tuvok where he had to learn to suppress his emotions before admitting himself to being a true Vulcan.  So it definitely does go beyond ENT and T'Pol...

CornishMonkey

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Report this Aug. 01 2009, 8:32 am

Quote (WedgeBob @ Aug. 01 2009, 1:10 pm)
Well, if you watch the TNG episode where Sarek, or was it Silik? ?Can't remember, but he was the ambassador of a real old age, and he was invited aboard Enterprise NCC-1701-D, and he somehow showed loads of emotions, like crying during that play in the ship's theater, and growing erratic fits when provoked. ?That's another example where Vulcans turn out to be less Vulcan-y.

This was the result of Bendii Syndrome.

clicky

It is Sarek, by the way.

honeybee1111

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Report this Aug. 01 2009, 8:33 am

Sarek, Spock's father, was the one who visited the Enterprise-D. He was on an important diplomatic mission, but he developed a Vulcan analog to Alzheimer's Disease and lost emotional control. Picard had to meld with him in order to allow him to complete his mission.

Again, Vulcans are interesting because they have emotions and suppress them - not because they don't have them. Going back to TOS, Spock's emotional control was challenged quite a few times. Of course, I am partial to "The Enterprise Incident" when Spock isn't challenged because of spores or a virus or Ponn Farr - but rather he's just attracted to the Commander. But he remains in control.

I really enjoyed T'Pol's arc on Enterprise as the first Vulcan to live among humans for an extended period - and the various challenges that came her way.

Quote
By a country mile, the most character driven show was DS9.


I agree, DS9 was practically a soap opera. People tend to love it or hate it for that reason. Enterprise was not nearly so much about the interactions of the characters - but I do think most characters had their story arcs, especially the big three. But I will say this, Hoshi had a pretty strong story arc about overcoming fear - which peaked at Countdown & Zero Hour. (They didn't have a clue what to do with her after that, imo) Malcolm had the whole repressed intelligence officer arc and while Phlox didn't have a big evolution, he remained an interesting character - and when he was given an episode he shine. But unlike DS9 - Enterprise did focus more on external interactions and adventures.

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