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Star Trek and homosexuality

Kukalaka009

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POSTS: 179

Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:08 pm

Gene Roddenberry's vision consisted of a future without prejudice. They've tackled racism, sexism, and just about everything under the sun...except homosexuality.

There were a few episodes of TNG and DS9 that "attempted" to address the issue of acceptance and the absurdity of intolerance. "The Outcast" and "Rejoined" are a few that come to mind. Those episodes were written 15-20 years ago.

If they continue with the movies, or even have a new television series someday, do you think that is something that would be addressed? Do you think there would every be a gay character on Star Trek, or is the world (especially this country) still not ready to accept something like that yet?

If so, I think fans would be more accepting of a lesbian main character. I don't think a gay male main character would go over well.

Thoughts?

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Jul. 31 2009, 8:37 pm

I tend to agree more with Roddenberry's assessment. If you point it out and make it an issue then you're contradicting the notion that it is acceptable. If anything it should just stay far far in the background.

If you read the ENT novel "The Good That Men Do", they make references to Trip's brother being homosexual. I accept it for what it is, but then in the sequel "The Kobayashi Maru" a Klingon is written to be gay and it starts to hit you over the head with the issue. I'm more a fan of subtlety.  

Other shows have done it, so there's nothing to be gained. And when other shows do it, like BSG, then the emphasis shifts because it's more shock value than actually contributing to the plot or story and comes off as cheap for the characters involved.

I will say that I like what they did with Captain Jack in Doctor Who and Torchwood (though I don't really like Torchwood yet). Instead of making him strictly homosexual, they made him bisexual. In a weird, ironic sort of way that brings some balance to the issue.

DNA7077

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POSTS: 299

Report this Jul. 31 2009, 10:52 pm

Quote (Kukalaka009 @ July 31 2009, 5:08 pm)
If so, I think fans would be more accepting of a lesbian main character. I don't think a gay male main character would go over well.

Thoughts?

Lesbians seem to "go over" better than gay males in real life as well...  :eyesroll:

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the next ST series has a gay character considering none of the people involved with the last 5 series will be involved (most likely).

drunkenDamar

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POSTS: 679

Report this Jul. 31 2009, 11:28 pm

I agree with being subtle about it and not being as preachy. Viewers can catch the subtle meanings and go on with the plot, whereas being preachy about it or making it blatantly obvious detracts fromt he story.

There are a few DS9 episodes that include homosexual elements. One is the obvious famous Dax kiss, and the other is a season 7 one, forgot the name but its with Dax investigating a murder and one is a murdered male officer who had children and a husband.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 12:33 am

Quote (drunkenDamar @ July 31 2009, 11:28 pm)
There are a few DS9 episodes that include homosexual elements. One is the obvious famous Dax kiss, and the other is a season 7 one, forgot the name but its with Dax investigating a murder and one is a murdered male officer who had children and a husband.

"Field of Fire"

I think he was a Bolian in this case, and he had "a wife and co-husband" so it was in a sense a three way marriage.

Also I tend to agree with the notion of not making the topic into such an issue. And just because (as yet) the main characters don't tend to be gay that doesn't mean that gay people aren't in the Star Trek universe and that gayness isn't accepted.

Edgeways

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POSTS: 2542

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 1:05 am

That is the one frontier Trek has yet to cross.  Whereas Dr. Who deals quite admirably with the subject.

SLagonia

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Report this Aug. 01 2009, 2:21 am

My opinion on this one hasn't changed.  I've been asked this question in interviews, e-mails, speeches...  I even was on a 'Homosexuality in Star Trek' panel not long ago.  What it comes down to is the quote in my signature (it's this debate that it comes from); Tolerance is allowing a minority to have equal rights. Acceptance is not thinking of someone as a minority.  There are no gay people, there are no straight people, there are just people.

To this end, I would like to see a homosexual relationship written as if it were just another opposite-sex relationship.  No allagory, no special meaning, no hidden message.  It's just there.

coloradochaz

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POSTS: 2846

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 8:31 am

This kind of trash talk should be permitted over at the Ten Forward Board, and certainly not here. This will be reported, and hopefully removed.

Admiral_JTK

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POSTS: 4833

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 8:50 am

DS9 Mirror Universe episodes toyed with a lot of gay undertones.
As for homosex in Trek in general, I can certainly do just fine not knowing about it, though it would have been nice to see Deanna and Beverly get all touchy-feely every once in a while.......but that's it.

chr3335

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POSTS: 7914

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 1:41 pm

Quote (coloradochaz @ July 31 2009, 9:31 am)
This kind of trash talk should be permitted over at the Ten Forward Board, and certainly not here. This will be reported, and hopefully removed.

I am confused as to what your problem is?

coloradochaz

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POSTS: 2846

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 2:26 pm

The only ones interested in pursuing these discussions have used them to make a mockery of religion at the Ten Forward Boards, and they were removed from there, at my request. Yes, I admit to being one of the "finks" and I'm proud to say it because these message boards deserve better. We certainly should not have to be subjected to such dribble here at this Board. Say what you will, but I may no longer respond to it.

Edgeways

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POSTS: 2542

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 4:20 pm

Quote (coloradochaz @ Aug. 01 2009, 12:26 pm)
The only ones interested in pursuing these discussions have used them to make a mockery of religion at the Ten Forward Boards, and they were removed from there, at my request. Yes, I admit to being one of the "finks" and I'm proud to say it because these message boards deserve better. We certainly should not have to be subjected to such dribble here at this Board. Say what you will, but I may no longer respond to it.

It's this sort of intolerance that gives Christians a bad name.  Grow up.  "Dribble?"  Wow, where did you come from, the Middle Ages?  They're queer, they're here, get used to it.  Maybe you should stay off these boards if they are so filled with rubbish, such as sexual orientation.  Doesn't the devil control the internet anyway?  Aren't you afraid of the evil spirits in cyber space?  Look out, behind you!  Its the 21st century.

ENT567

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POSTS: 5267

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 7:37 pm

:)

Edgeways

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POSTS: 2542

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 9:05 pm

Quote (coloradochaz @ Aug. 01 2009, 12:26 pm)
The only ones interested in pursuing these discussions have used them to make a mockery of religion at the Ten Forward Boards, and they were removed from there, at my request. Yes, I admit to being one of the "finks" and I'm proud to say it because these message boards deserve better. We certainly should not have to be subjected to such dribble here at this Board. Say what you will, but I may no longer respond to it.

And how exactly does talking about homosexuality on Star Trek make a "mockery of religion"?--(other than my earlier post that is!;)  :blush:

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 01 2009, 11:20 pm

I doubt that the Admin will delete a thread based on mature discussion, as this one has been.

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