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Momentum question from ST: XI...

DejaQC

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POSTS: 681

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 12:44 pm

After watching the scene where Chekov beams Kirk and Sulu from the free fall, I had a question about transporting.  Does the momentum from a fall like that disappear when beaming is finished?  They were falling pretty fast and hard, but hit the pad like a slight fall. I'm trying to think of other situations like that, but can't.  Thoughts anyone?

Last_Human

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POSTS: 1868

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 1:10 pm

Momentum is not an issue with transporting - it just recreates your atoms on the pad. If you think about it, the relative speeds of a passing starship and a planet spinning at thousands of miles an hour is far faster.

gof

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 1:14 pm

None of this matter cause they were falling without helmets.
There isnt enough air up there for them to be alive.
You can give them a break on the drill and say that that the ships creates an atmosphere for mechanics and such but once they fell that no longer works.
That whole scene doesnt work at all.

DarthRage

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 1:22 pm

From what I saw, the heighth they fell from was no higher than an average parachute jump from an airplane. There was ample atmosphere to breathe. No prblem there. And when they hit the transporter base, if you watch closely, you see the back of either Kirk's or Sulu's suit smashes apart and debris flies all over the place.

SpaceTherapist

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POSTS: 6370

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 1:24 pm

Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 2:14 pm)
None of this matter cause they were falling without helmets.
There isnt enough air up there for them to be alive.
You can give them a break on the drill and say that that the ships creates an atmosphere for mechanics and such but once they fell that no longer works.
That whole scene doesnt work at all.

Yeah if it wasn't for this magical working plot device called a transporter the whole scene would be believable.  :eyesroll:

DejaQC

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POSTS: 681

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 2:28 pm

Say you are transported while running at a descent speed.  After completion, would you still be running at the same speed off of the pad or somehow stopped in mid-motion and stay standing still?  

I remember the scene from the TNG episode The Most Toys when they beamed Data up near the end when he was firing that weapon.  O'Brian said he detected the weapon being fire and deactivated it.  This infers that if he didn't, it would have continued to fire after completion.  Does this suggest that activities done during beaming continue after completion?

SpaceTherapist

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POSTS: 6370

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 2:32 pm

Quote (DejaQC @ July 21 2009, 3:28 pm)
Say you are transported while running at a descent speed. ¿After completion, would you still be running at the same speed off of the pad or somehow stopped in mid-motion and stay standing still? ¿

I remember the scene from the TNG episode The Most Toys when they beamed Data up near the end when he was firing that weapon. ¿O'Brian said he detected the weapon being fire and deactivated it. ¿This infers that if he didn't, it would have continued to fire after completion. ¿Does this suggest that activities done during beaming continue after completion?

I think so. Look at Star Trek VI you can see general Chang turning his head while materializing. So it looks like you do continue whatever motion you were doing when you we dematerialized.

gof

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 2:48 pm

Quote (SpaceTherapist @ July 22 2009, 1:24 pm)
Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 2:14 pm)
None of this matter cause they were falling without helmets.
There isnt enough air up there for them to be alive.
You can give them a break on the drill and say that that the ships creates an atmosphere for mechanics and such but once they fell that no longer works.
That whole scene doesnt work at all.

Yeah if it wasn't for this magical working plot device called a transporter the whole scene would be believable. ¿:eyesroll:

Transporters exist in the fictional world of Trek...... but i dont remember where it was told the people could breathe in the Thermosphere.

gof

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POSTS: 4455

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 2:59 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ July 22 2009, 1:22 pm)
From what I saw, the heighth they fell from was no higher than an average parachute jump from an airplane. There was ample atmosphere to breathe. No prblem there. .

If you think that is the average height people parachute from........ you have a serious lack of information on that subject.

DejaQC

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POSTS: 681

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 3:00 pm

Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 3:48 pm)
Transporters exist in the fictional world of Trek...... but i dont remember where it was told the people could breathe in the Thermosphere.

Yes, transporters are fictitious, but we still can try to make sense of it when there is a question.  But I feel what you are saying about the thin air layer in the thermosphere.

gof

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 3:02 pm

Quote (DejaQC @ July 22 2009, 3:00 pm)
Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 3:48 pm)
Transporters exist in the fictional world of Trek...... but i dont remember where it was told the people could breathe in the Thermosphere.

Yes, transporters are fictitious, but we still can try to make sense of it when there is a question. ¿But I feel what you are saying about the thin air layer in the thermosphere.

I'm not saying you cant answer the question Im just saying that it would be faulty since the whole scene really doesnt work.

Anyway, didnt Checkov say he was compensating for the momentum or something like that before he transported them?

SpaceTherapist

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POSTS: 6370

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 3:05 pm

Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 3:48 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ July 22 2009, 1:24 pm)
Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 2:14 pm)
None of this matter cause they were falling without helmets.
There isnt enough air up there for them to be alive.
You can give them a break on the drill and say that that the ships creates an atmosphere for mechanics and such but once they fell that no longer works.
That whole scene doesnt work at all.

Yeah if it wasn't for this magical working plot device called a transporter the whole scene would be believable. ?:eyesroll:

Transporters exist in the fictional world of Trek...... but i dont remember where it was told the people could breathe in the Thermosphere.

Well, since the laws of physics are different enough to allow a transporter to exist in that world maybe the laws of physics are different enough to allow them to breath at that height.

Do you really want to count the times Star Trek has broken the laws of physics.

rocketscientist

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 3:14 pm

Apparently, the transporter is able to get rid of that excess kinetic energy in the process.

It's a total miracle machine.  Even Larry Niven's transport booths on his future Earth had to get rid of changes in potential energy.

gof

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POSTS: 4455

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 3:15 pm

Quote (SpaceTherapist @ July 22 2009, 3:05 pm)
Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 3:48 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ July 22 2009, 1:24 pm)
Quote (gof @ July 21 2009, 2:14 pm)
None of this matter cause they were falling without helmets.
There isnt enough air up there for them to be alive.
You can give them a break on the drill and say that that the ships creates an atmosphere for mechanics and such but once they fell that no longer works.
That whole scene doesnt work at all.

Yeah if it wasn't for this magical working plot device called a transporter the whole scene would be believable. ?:eyesroll:

Transporters exist in the fictional world of Trek...... but i dont remember where it was told the people could breathe in the Thermosphere.

Well, since the laws of physics are different enough to allow a transporter to exist in that world maybe the laws of physics are different enough to allow them to breath at that height.

Do you really want to count the times Star Trek has broken the laws of physics.

Hmmm..... so in this Alternate Reality Vulcan doesnt have a THIN atmosphere like it has in normal Trek universe? It has a rich atmosphere that extends further than most M Class planets?

WkdYngMan

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POSTS: 3951

Report this Jul. 22 2009, 3:22 pm

Well we technically shouldn't hear sound in space since there is no air to carry the soundwaves either, so this is just one of those things in Star Trek.

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