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Subspace

nextgeneration14

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POSTS: 463

Report this Jul. 18 2009, 7:52 pm

So I've watch star trek for years, and I know that subspace is used for communications and maybe warp? I've kind of just ... went with it.

I guess my question is what is it? Does it have any real basis in physics? Thanks.

GrandLunar2007

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Report this Jul. 18 2009, 11:07 pm

I don't think there is a basis in real life (though a certain individual on these boards my say otherwise).

Far as I could tell, it's a sort of inner domain of regular space.

Yeah, doesn't help much, does it?

Perhaps it's a sort of extra dimension to normal space.

Memory Alpha may have better insight.

nextgeneration14

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Report this Jul. 18 2009, 11:44 pm

... well thanks for trying, I'll check that out.

dryson

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Report this Jul. 19 2009, 9:19 am

Quote
I don't think there is a basis in real life (though a certain individual on these boards my say otherwise).

Far as I could tell, it's a sort of inner domain of regular space.

Yeah, doesn't help much, does it?

Perhaps it's a sort of extra dimension to normal space.

Memory Alpha may have better insight.


First off what is space? There are two basic units of space we have the proper noun Space which the Universe is contained within and is infinite.

Then we have the noun space which is an area that does not have any matter occupying it's area or volume but can have matter added to it thus decreasing the empty area of volume.

Maybe what is meant by subspace is possibly how sound travels through air, which if you think about it the air molecule is occupying one type of space which is our atmosphere while the area inside if the air molecule is another form of space that is being occupied by different types of matter. The space inside of atom could be considered subspace.

Khoufu_Khorushu

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Report this Jul. 21 2009, 1:27 am

I think it's one of those things where you'd have to understand a bunch of technical terms to understand or something. My favorite video game (Super Smash Bros. Brawl) has a section called 'Subspace Emissary' and it goes into subspace, but it's not the main focus, but everything is all distorted and alf-invisible when you go into subspace, it's really weird.

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Jul. 21 2009, 11:30 am

Quote (dryson @ July 18 2009, 10:19 am)
Quote
I don't think there is a basis in real life (though a certain individual on these boards my say otherwise).

Far as I could tell, it's a sort of inner domain of regular space.

Yeah, doesn't help much, does it?

Perhaps it's a sort of extra dimension to normal space.

Memory Alpha may have better insight.


First off what is space? There are two basic units of space we have the proper noun Space which the Universe is contained within and is infinite.

Then we have the noun space which is an area that does not have any matter occupying it's area or volume but can have matter added to it thus decreasing the empty area of volume.

Maybe what is meant by subspace is possibly how sound travels through air, which if you think about it the air molecule is occupying one type of space which is our atmosphere while the area inside if the air molecule is another form of space that is being occupied by different types of matter. The space inside of atom could be considered subspace.

wrong a basic unit of space is called a planck length and planck area..

dryson

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Report this Jul. 21 2009, 5:39 pm

No, Lancer you are wrong Plankc is unit of measure and not space itself. I reference you to the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units

Every term associated with Planck is a measure of time, time being the measureable distance traveled by an atom within a medium, based upon the energetic properties of the atom(s) within the medium, how those atom(s) exert a force upon the medium that they are contained within as well as how the energetic properties of the medium exert a force back upon the atom(s) contained within the medium. This is what time is.

Space is a medium that does not exist but exists as a medium in which atoms particles randomly move around. The particles within space do not exert any force on any particles in space nor is space affected by an force exerted by an atom.

Space is the absolute of nothing.

oxonium35

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 6:14 am

Quote (dryson @ July 21 2009, 5:39 pm)
No, Lancer you are wrong Plankc is unit of measure and not space itself. I reference you to the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units

Every term associated with Planck is a measure of time, time being the measureable distance traveled by an atom within a medium, based upon the energetic properties of the atom(s) within the medium, how those atom(s) exert a force upon the medium that they are contained within as well as how the energetic properties of the medium exert a force back upon the atom(s) contained within the medium. This is what time is.

Space is a medium that does not exist but exists as a medium in which atoms particles randomly move around. The particles within space do not exert any force on any particles in space nor is space affected by an force exerted by an atom.

Space is the absolute of nothing.

Planck length is a unit of space.

you seriously have no idea what you are talking about and need to learn to write

oxonium35

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 6:32 am

to answer the original poster's question:

Subspace is not something based in science at all. Though it's not completely unthinkable, in the Star Trek world it is a term used for a nondescript 'layer' of 'space' of an unknown number of dimensions which is mostly ever present along with normal space.

It's only known characteristics are that you can send a signal through it of some description faster than the speed of light. And creating a subspace field is required for warp travel. But you do not travel through subspace while at warp.

The manner by which you send a signal through subspace isn't really defined. It's possible perhaps you just send through a normal electromagnetic transmission by opening subspace and this travels faster than light because perhaps subspace does not have the same physical restraints on the speed of light as normal space. Or perhaps it's just completely weird and therefore i don't know.

dryson

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 12:01 pm

No Oxo, you need to fully read the terms before loosely interpreting what you want to believe from what you read

In physics, Planck units are units of measurement named after the German physicist Max Planck, who first proposed them in 1899. They are an example of natural units, i.e. units of measurement designed so that certain fundamental physical constants are normalized to 1. The constants that Planck units normalize to 1 are the:


units are units of measurement - a measure of distance, time, length, there is no mention of space whatsoever.


And when you refer to space you need to specify which space you are refering to either space that is contained within a straight edged geometric shape.

Meaning on the inside of the shapes perimeter where the space can then be analized or space that is the medium in which atoms randomly move about and cannot exert a force on an atom nor can an atom exert of force back upon.


Planck is a measure of lengths. Not space.

dryson

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 12:08 pm

Sub-space would be the area inside of an atoms structure.
Think of it this way, a piece of paper is space or normal space, nothing occuring against an atom or is the atom exerting a force on any other atom.

Now draw a circle on the paper, preferably by using template.
The circle represents the atoms circumferance  with the space inside of the circle being sub-space or the space that is located within normal space but is not affected by normal space. Subspace can however be affected by other sub-space.

oxonium35

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 12:15 pm

Quote (dryson @ July 22 2009, 12:01 pm)
No Oxo, you need to fully read the terms before loosely interpreting what you want to believe from what you read

In physics, Planck units are units of measurement named after the German physicist Max Planck, who first proposed them in 1899. They are an example of natural units, i.e. units of measurement designed so that certain fundamental physical constants are normalized to 1. The constants that Planck units normalize to 1 are the:


units are units of measurement - a measure of distance, time, length, there is no mention of space whatsoever.


And when you refer to space you need to specify which space you are refering to either space that is contained within a straight edged geometric shape.

Meaning on the inside of the shapes perimeter where the space can then be analized or space that is the medium in which atoms randomly move about and cannot exert a force on an atom nor can an atom exert of force back upon.


Planck is a measure of lengths. Not space.

I don't need ur classic wikipedia cut and paste education on Max Planck but thanks.

You're nitpicking, and you obviously have some supernatural ideas about what space is.

Planck length is a unit of distance yes. But space is distance, or at least what i should say is a unit of space is defined by 3 dimensions of distance. Therefore 1 Planck length is a distance in space.

What type of space? Space that is contained within a straight edged geometric shape? What kind of shape? one you drew on your page? what do you mean?

"or space that is the medium in which atoms randomly move about and cannot exert a force on an atom nor can an atom exert of force back upon"

well a very strange way of writing it but yes the above is what space is. What is space within the the perimeter of a geometric shape and how is that different? please tell? what kind of shape, what is the physical construct? is this the shape of space itself curved on itself or literally inside something?

oxonium35

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 12:23 pm

Quote (dryson @ July 22 2009, 12:08 pm)
Sub-space would be the area inside of an atoms structure.
Think of it this way, a piece of paper is space or normal space, nothing occuring against an atom or is the atom exerting a force on any other atom.

Now draw a circle on the paper, preferably by using template.
The circle represents the atoms circumferance ¿with the space inside of the circle being sub-space or the space that is located within normal space but is not affected by normal space. Subspace can however be affected by other sub-space.

so if subspace is the space within an atom, i guess you mean inside the electrons around the nucleus? using a very basic bohr model... how can you send a signal over great many distances using only the space that is within a single atom, and not connected to anything else? and lets be honest not too many atoms flying around in the vacuum of space. Some, plenty o charged particles but not too many atoms.

How can you send a signal through it?
How can it be omnipresent enough to create a warp field with normal space when there aren't many atoms just flying around in the vacuum of space?

dryson

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 12:34 pm

Well that is the tricky part and there are an infinite number of particles randomly traveling through space.

Each elementary particle exhibits the same characteristics regardless if the particle is two feet away or 10 light years away. A way would need to be found to be able to link each particle of a similar element, hydrogen for example, so that data could be transmitted through the particle where the particle could actually help increase the transmission and stability of the signal instead of decreasing the stability of the signal.

This could turn into a very good topic as I served in a Communications Section as a wiremen while I was in the Marine's and know alittle bit about transmissions and signals and other pieces of fun wavelength gobly gook.

lanceromega

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Report this Jul. 22 2009, 12:55 pm

Quote (dryson @ July 21 2009, 1:34 pm)
Well that is the tricky part and there are an infinite number of particles randomly traveling through space.

Each elementary particle exhibits the same characteristics regardless if the particle is two feet away or 10 light years away. A way would need to be found to be able to link each particle of a similar element, hydrogen for example, so that data could be transmitted through the particle where the particle could actually help increase the transmission and stability of the signal instead of decreasing the stability of the signal.

This could turn into a very good topic as I served in a Communications Section as a wiremen while I was in the Marine's and know alittle bit about transmissions and signals and other pieces of fun wavelength gobly gook.

Good!!!!! i demand proof that you were a line men in the marines!!!!!!

Let see your discharge Paper!!!!!

You have brought your expert qualification into this debate and it is now up to you to prove that you were even in the service...

;)
I doubt you even made it out of boot camp...

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