WkdYngMan GROUP: Members POSTS: 3948  |
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Jul. 19 2009, 3:37 pm
| Quote (Cynic321 @ July 19 2009, 3:22 pm) | | Quote (WkdYngMan @ July 19 2009, 2:08 pm) | | Quote | | A kid in command of Starfleet's best starship... Yeeehaaaa!!!! |
26 is the new 16, I guess. |
They let 26 year olds fly fighter planes.
They don't let them command aircraft carriers.
Nothing wrong with being 26. It's an awesome age to be as I recall.
But there is such a thing as too much, too soon. |
Okay, so what about fictional future Starfleet? They obviously let someone be a Captain at that age (presumably,) so we can't really argue that they can't when they did! |
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Jul. 19 2009, 3:39 pm
| Quote (WkdYngMan @ July 19 2009, 3:37 pm) | | Quote (Cynic321 @ July 19 2009, 3:22 pm) | | Quote (WkdYngMan @ July 19 2009, 2:08 pm) | | Quote | | A kid in command of Starfleet's best starship... Yeeehaaaa!!!! |
26 is the new 16, I guess. |
They let 26 year olds fly fighter planes.
They don't let them command aircraft carriers.
Nothing wrong with being 26. It's an awesome age to be as I recall.
But there is such a thing as too much, too soon. |
Okay, so what about fictional future Starfleet? ¿They obviously let someone be a Captain at that age (presumably,) so we can't really argue that they can't when they did! |
In Orci's delusional world they do you mean. |
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Jul. 19 2009, 3:46 pm
| Quote (Cynic321 @ July 19 2009, 3:17 pm) | | Does the film do that? With: Transwarp beaming-Scotty invents it in the future, where when why? It's a deus ex machina dropped into the story to salvage it when the writer's hit a wall. I HATE the machine of the gods cheat. It's lazy. |
Then it is equally as lazy for someone to demand that everything be spelled out for them instead of just using their heads. | Quote | | Did the film explain why Kirk was a short hazel eyed man in the series and a tall blue eyed man in the movie? 5 seconds worth of screen time. Throw away dialogue. We know it's a cheat, but where's the 'Heisenburg Compensator please shut up" ? |
Did they explain why Savvik strangely looked like two seperate people? 5 seconds of dialogue... or you just go along with it and not worry about it. | Quote | | That's one thing. But it truly reeks in that it doesn't even get the many world's thing right in that Kirk is conceived 9 flippin months BEFORE Nero's temporal incursion. |
7 months. But what does that have to do an interpretation of the MWT? | Quote | | I suspend my disbelief right at the point of lazy writing with plot contrivences like the above to say nothing of relying on 'destiny' to explain away the convienence of Kirk,Spock Prime (who I.D.'s a tall young blue eyed stranger as James T. Kirk) , and Montgomery Scott all showing up on a planet that shouldn't be there in the first place. |
You must have a lot of problems with a lot of Star Trek then. | Quote | | The writer is asking for a lot right up front. |
A writer being demanding but yet somehow "lazy." Hmm. | Quote | | At least have enough respect for the people paying the freight not to insult their intelligence. |
I think a lot of the people who felt their intelligence was "insulted" are the ones who feel things should have been spelled out and explained needlessly, without just figuring a couple of things for yourself and realizing the ride is a lot smoother. |
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WkdYngMan GROUP: Members POSTS: 3948 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 3:47 pm
| Quote (BrianHMay @ July 19 2009, 3:39 pm) | | In Orci's delusional world they do you mean. |
Aww, still upset with him Matt? |
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Jul. 19 2009, 3:50 pm
My name is George.
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LoganKaill GROUP: Members POSTS: 324 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 4:08 pm
| Quote (Mirrorgirl @ July 19 2009, 5:11 am) | | Quote (LoganKaill @ July 19 2009, 6:48 pm) | | Quote (Captain_Storma @ July 18 2009, 4:58 pm) | So what... he saved the planet (along with all the other people aboard the Enterprise, and let's not forget Spock and Prime Spock who contributed more than he did)... give him a medal of honor or whateever... and then send him back to class.
Archer was a seasoned Starfleet Officer, who contributed to the construction of the NX-Class... and he was actually the second choice for command of the Enterprise.
The real Kirk was working hard to become captain! We know that from TOS (it is mentioned in at least one episode in season 1! ).
At least in those aspects TREK has always been credible. Captains always had experience. Picard was in command of an old Starship before he got command of the Enterprise!
Sisko was a long-time commander, before he was promoted to captain... after countless "save the Federation" scenarios!
Yet THIS Kirk... disobeys orders, violates "I-do-not-know-how-many" Starfleet protocols, and they make him captain of their best ship??? ? ?For what exactly??? (Answer: The screenplay)
I mean, come on guys... you can like the movie allright, but that is plain ridiculous!
Would the US navy (JJ's Starfleet is more than ever based on it) promote a cadet to the captain of a nuclear submarine of the Ohio-Class?
Would a medical student in his 3rd year be promoted to Chief of a Hospital?
No matter how much you like that movie... at least that detail should bother you a little.
It was plain and simple ridiculous. |
McCoy was a doctor before he join starfleet so thats understandable but i agree with you on Kirk. there is no way in hell that Kirk we be promoted to Captain with get field experience. he needed to learn how things operated on a star ship. JJ Abrams did a shitty job putting that in there when he could of easily have shown Kirk graduating from starfleet academy and after the ceremony talking to Pike and Pike telling kirk that hed someday get his chance, then move to 6 years into the future with kirk on the bridge of the Enterprise. Now they cant talk about any of Kirks missions in the lower ranks because guess what they never happen. so i mean i think the writers just restricted themselves with doing that. Other than that it was a great movie but it could have been awsome. Hopefully in about 10 ears when this triology is over with they will get back to the prime Star Trek most likly. |
So totally agree with you. It should have been left at a Medal and Pike telling him he would make Captain one day.
It was the most far-fetched part of the film. I hope that what we saw was just Kirk being made 'actin-Captain' until Pike is back in Command and that the next movie shows him completingmore Command training and experience before becoming a full Captain. (That ending was the most 'Star Warsie' part of the film for me).
But none of this stopped me enjoying what was in effect a thrill ride of the same proportions as STIV. |
it didnt stop me either from enjoying the film and sorry about the grammaitical errors. i should read what i write before i post it lol. |
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Jul. 19 2009, 5:07 pm
| Quote (Cynic321 @ July 20 2009, 12:17 am) | | Quote (SpaceTherapist @ July 18 2009, 8:09 pm) | But the question then becomes how willing are you to go with the flow of the far fetched premise?
For myself they have never breeched the credibility to where I have hated a show or movie. Sure I may roll my eyes and shake my head at some of the implausible aspects of Star Trek (the entire franchise) but I do not get to the level of emotion that some people get to.
What I am wondering is if you can accept some far fetched ideas in Star Trek what stops you from accepting others? |
| Quote | | What I am wondering is if you can accept some far fetched ideas in Star Trek what stops you from accepting others? |
If you'll permit and forgive the arrogance of rephrasing you: What causes my willing suspension of disbelief to fail?
I think of a ficitonal story as a system. The parts work together to tell the narrative as a whole. And a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
Within ST there's an entire universe of peoples, places, events, and rules that regulate it all. Same with any other ficitional universe. It has to be consistent for the overall narrative of the ST Universe to hang together.
You've got shows in it's history that talk about genetics and those genetics appear to mirror our own real ones. ¿You've got shows that deal with time travel and insist that repairing changes in the timeline can "reset the clock" just in time for the epilogue and next week's episode.
You've got these past stories that create these rules that are then just disregarded and thrown out in the new movie. Which I could go along with IF the writers/producers of the movie gave me just a nod that they were issues of consideration.
For instance: for years between TOS and TNG I'd seen articles decrying the transporter as unrealistic and far-fetched, used soley as a plot device to tighten up the stories (all true of course).
So what did the writers/producers of TNG give us? The 'Heisenburg Compensator' , that little piece of fictional magic that said, "Yes, the transporter's a cheat. You know it and we know it. Now here's a bone-please shut up *wink-wink* " And we gladly complied.
And what did it cost them? One line of dialogue. Less than 5 seconds of screen time.
Does the film do that? With: Transwarp beaming-Scotty invents it in the future, where when why? It's a deus ex machina dropped into the story to salvage it when the writer's hit a wall. I HATE the machine of the gods cheat. It's lazy.
Did they explain why Delta Vega at the edge of the galaxy in WNMHGB is suddenly a moon of Vulcan? 5 seconds of screen time.
Did the film explain why Kirk was a short hazel eyed man in the series and a tall blue eyed man in the movie? 5 seconds worth of screen time. Throw away dialogue. We know it's a cheat, but where's the 'Heisenburg Compensator please shut up" ?
This blue eyed Kirk is a pet peeve of mine. Even taking the many world's approach and trashing the TOS/TNG/DS9/etc... view of time travel stinks. It stinks in that it throws away all that history. That's one thing. But it truly reeks in that it doesn't even get the many world's thing right in that Kirk is conceived 9 flippin months BEFORE Nero's temporal incursion. How much 'spooky action' and 'time ripples' over how many parsecs are we supposed to accept on 'faith' because the writers were too lazy to get their 'Schroedingers Cat' science right. And don't get me started on 'black hoooooles" .
I suspend my disbelief right at the point of lazy writing with plot contrivences like the above to say nothing of relying on 'destiny' to explain away the convienence of Kirk,Spock Prime (who I.D.'s a tall young blue eyed stranger as James T. Kirk) , and Montgomery Scott all showing up on a planet that shouldn't be there in the first place.
I've always maintained that science fiction should have a HIGHER standard on the suspension of disbelief because you've got some tremendous hurdles to clear in getting the audience/reader to come along on a journey with warp drives/transporters/clones/time travel/etc... in the first place.
The writer is asking for a lot right up front. He's asking for the viewer to go along with all the wacky gizmos and far fetched situations. The least the writer can do is respect the reader/viewer enough to make the fantastic tale he's telling a 'tight' one without sloppy plotting and transparent cheats (and if it IS a cheat-to be honest about it) .
At least have enough respect for the people paying the freight not to insult their intelligence. |
Wow... One of the best post on this board in recent month. I agree with you completely!!!! Thanks! |
Cynic321 GROUP: Members POSTS: 8588 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 5:19 pm
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (WkdYngMan @ July 19 2009, 2:46 pm) | > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (Cynic321 @ July 19 2009, 3:17 pm)> id="QUOTE">Does the film do that? With: Transwarp beaming-Scotty invents it in the future, where when why? It's a deus ex machina dropped into the story to salvage it when the writer's hit a wall. I HATE the machine of the gods cheat. It's lazy.
Then it is equally as lazy for someone to demand that everything be spelled out for them instead of just using their heads.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Did the film explain why Kirk was a short hazel eyed man in the series and a tall blue eyed man in the movie? 5 seconds worth of screen time. Throw away dialogue. We know it's a cheat, but where's the 'Heisenburg Compensator please shut up" ?
Did they explain why Savvik strangely looked like two seperate people? ?5 seconds of dialogue... or you just go along with it and not worry about it.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">That's one thing. But it truly reeks in that it doesn't even get the many world's thing right in that Kirk is conceived 9 flippin months BEFORE Nero's temporal incursion.
7 months. ?But what does that have to do an interpretation of the MWT?
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">I suspend my disbelief right at the point of lazy writing with plot contrivences like the above to say nothing of relying on 'destiny' to explain away the convienence of Kirk,Spock Prime (who I.D.'s a tall young blue eyed stranger as James T. Kirk) , and Montgomery Scott all showing up on a planet that shouldn't be there in the first place.
You must have a lot of problems with a lot of Star Trek then.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">The writer is asking for a lot right up front.
A writer being demanding but yet somehow "lazy." ?Hmm.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Then it is equally as lazy for someone to demand that everything be spelled out for them instead of just using their heads.
I'm gonna remind you that you said that after the next sequel(s) where that nifty little transwarp beaming trick would save everybody and isn't even mentioned.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Did they explain why Savvik strangely looked like two seperate people? ?5 seconds of dialogue... or you just go along with it and not worry about it.
Recasting is a reality. No problem with it. In a $150 million dollar production they can't stand Quinto on a pallet or put hazel contacts in Pine's eyes? Savvik wasn't a brunette in one movie and a blonde in the next one, was she?
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">7 months. ?But what does that have to do an interpretation of the MWT?
I missed that, where's it say Kirk's premature? Gestation in humans in 9 months otherwise. So unless I missed it, James T. was conceived 9 months before the Kelvin Incident (give or take a couple of weeks).
As to many worlds theory:
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Please, don't.
I won't. It's been done far better than I can do it. But I'll say this: it stands tall, as the preeminent example, at the center of my gripes.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Yet many people didn't have a problem with it (or too much of one). ?So they did their job.
Yeah. The way a chef can open a can of ravioli vs. putting a little soul into his job...lots of people love canned ravioli.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">I think a lot of the people who felt their intelligence was "insulted" are the ones who feel things should have been spelled out and explained needlessly, without just figuring a couple of things for yourself and realizing the ride is a lot smoother.
I won't presume to speak for a lot of people, but for my part; it's not 'needless' to offer an explaination for a discontinuity from 'Spock PRIME' as to how a tall blue eyed man is the short hazel eyed friend he's known all his life. From a story point of view. I can weave all sorts of incredible explainations for it.
But I wouldn't have to if the writer had simply done his frakin' job competently, would I? I'm not 'too lazy' to do some independent thinking. I've done a lot of it the last few decades. It's fun. And some story elements can take place off screen (especially in a movie with only 120-130 minutes to tell the tale).
But with STXI, there was simply too dam.ned much of that required. And the parts that did make the screen to run in time alloted, didn't hang together logically.
It moved fast, it was pretty, lots of explosions and conflict, and tribbles in the background to appease us old farts. But it couldn't get the science right, and the fiction was too loose/sloppy-in plot, characterization, etc...
It needed at least one more re-write/polish.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Sure, Kirk becoming Captain too young and fast is far fetched but then again so are many things in Star Trek and it doesn't take away my enjoyment of the movie.
Likewise, I enjoyed it. I harp on it because of what it could have been; but wasn't. But I'm not losing sight of the fact that is was good enough to save the franchise. For which I'm grateful. I work in human services. I'm pretty tolerant of mankind's foibles. I'm a walking textbook of them. But when it comes to MY Star Trek (lol) I'm a hardass. |
Vice_Adm_Baxter GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 5:22 pm
And yet everyone forgets it's a character introduction movie. We should be more concerned about TREK XI.  |
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Captain_Storma GROUP: Members POSTS: 11836 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 5:39 pm
| Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ July 20 2009, 2:22 am) | | And yet everyone forgets it's a character introduction movie. We should be more concerned about TREK XI. |
You mean XII  Yeah, sure... a character introduction movie. But just compare it to BATMAN BEGINS (which also served as an introduction). BATMAN BEGINS was a terrific written story, with a Bruce Wayne you were able to connect to, to understand his motivations... a masterpiece. I do not blame TREK XI's actors, nor the people responsible for production design, effects or even music (the score worked good on screen). Change the director, and get someone of Nolan's class... hire writers who do not exclusively write CGI beat'em up movies... give that whole thing a story which is not driven by coincidents... and you will not only get masses into the cinema, but also please people who need a little more than CGI and action (and there a quite a few... ). Yes visually the movie was impressive (although too shakey), design worked good etc. All it needed was a quality character driven story, and it would have been a solid film. Since Abrams, Orci and Krutzman are involved in TREK XII... my hopes for this project have gone to Zero.Zero. |
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Cynic321 GROUP: Members POSTS: 8588 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 5:46 pm
| Quote (Captain_Storma @ July 19 2009, 4:07 pm) | Wow... One of the best post on this board in recent month. I agree with you completely!!!!
Thanks! |
*tips hat* |
Narada GROUP: Members POSTS: 4006 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 6:39 pm
One more thing I like about Kirk in new movie is the symbol of someone finding comfort holding a cliff edge. Kirk is always taking risks and achieving the impossible. Kirk appears on a cliff in the beginning middle and end where each situation he was making effort and taking risks.
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Jul. 19 2009, 11:10 pm
| Quote (Cynic321 @ July 19 2009, 3:17 pm) | [quote=SpaceTherapist,July 18 2009, 8:09 pm]
Did they explain why Delta Vega at the edge of the galaxy in WNMHGB is suddenly a moon of Vulcan? 5 seconds of screen time. |
The explanation how innane works for me. How many Springfilds are in the United States, if you think on that scale it isn't beyond reasoning to think moons or planet names can and will be reused. |
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WkdYngMan GROUP: Members POSTS: 3948 |
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Jul. 19 2009, 11:46 pm
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (Cynic321 @ July 19 2009, 5:19 pm) | > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">In a $150 million dollar production they can't stand Quinto on a pallet or put hazel contacts in Pine's eyes?
Actually Orci mentioned they had discussed having Pine wear contacts, though not everyone can wear contacts either for medical reasons.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Gestation in humans in 9 months otherwise. So unless I missed it, James T. was conceived 9 months before the Kelvin Incident (give or take a couple of weeks).
And you seemed to have missed it.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">It's a question I put to Orci on the TrekMovie forum and the one that chased him out of his answer thread.
Oh puhleeze.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">I won't presume to speak for a lot of people, but for my part; it's not 'needless' to offer an explaination for a discontinuity from 'Spock PRIME' as to how a tall blue eyed man is the short hazel eyed friend he's known all his life. From a story point of view. I can weave all sorts of incredible explainations for it.
You're right, a lot of people don't care about the eye color.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">I'm not 'too lazy' to do some independent thinking. I've done a lot of it the last few decades. It's fun. And some story elements can take place off screen (especially in a movie with only 120-130 minutes to tell the tale).
But with STXI, there was simply too dam.ned much of that required.
Too much thinking required. Uh oh!
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">And the parts that did make the screen to run in time alloted, didn't hang together logically.
It moved fast, it was pretty, lots of explosions and conflict, and tribbles in the background to appease us old farts. But it couldn't get the science right, and the fiction was too loose/sloppy-in plot, characterization, etc...
It was fine really, but for some reason you're making issues where they are none really. |
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Cynic321 GROUP: Members POSTS: 8588 |
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Jul. 20 2009, 2:36 am
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (WkdYngMan @ July 19 2009, 10:46 pm) | > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (Cynic321 @ July 19 2009, 5:19 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">In a $150 million dollar production they can't stand Quinto on a pallet or put hazel contacts in Pine's eyes?
Actually Orci mentioned they had discussed having Pine wear contacts, though not everyone can wear contacts either for medical reasons.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Gestation in humans in 9 months otherwise. So unless I missed it, James T. was conceived 9 months before the Kelvin Incident (give or take a couple of weeks).
And you seemed to have missed it.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">It's a question I put to Orci on the TrekMovie forum and the one that chased him out of his answer thread.
Oh puhleeze.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">I won't presume to speak for a lot of people, but for my part; it's not 'needless' to offer an explaination for a discontinuity from 'Spock PRIME' as to how a tall blue eyed man is the short hazel eyed friend he's known all his life. From a story point of view. I can weave all sorts of incredible explainations for it.
You're right, a lot of people don't care about the eye color.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">I'm not 'too lazy' to do some independent thinking. I've done a lot of it the last few decades. It's fun. And some story elements can take place off screen (especially in a movie with only 120-130 minutes to tell the tale).
But with STXI, there was simply too dam.ned much of that required.
Too much thinking required. ?Uh oh!
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">You can do that, though I'm sure Trek fans like myself or fans of this movie would figure it out. Non-fans would just think it's a transporter, no harm done.
Sweet. So 'fans' are more forgiving than 'fans'. Which group are you and I in again?
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">So then you shouldn't have any complaints regarding Chris Pine not looking like William Shatner's twin.
And I don't. Did you hear me b1tching about his hair or cheekbones or nose or complexion? But now eyecolor & adult height (given adequate nutrition) is set at conception. G.E.N.E.T.I.C.S. Big deal in Trek. Bashir, Kahn, remember?
How many dramatic closeups of hazel eyes and two shots of Spock towering over Kirk are we required to ignore to get in the gusher line for STXI?
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Nope.... just just went from having brown hair to black hair, and didn't look like Kirstie Alley...
It's called recasting. I've got no problem with it. Time moves on and women LOVE to color their hair. You might make a valid point or perhaps just move on too.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">However, this was something I and others figured out without even an official explanation needed as we used our heads and put 2+2 together.
Bully for you. You might like Mensa.com.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Because he showed up after he was conceived? Why not? ?Why couldn't Kirk be conceived before Nero's incursion? ?Did the Many World's theory say that Nero could not have arrived after James T. Kirk's conception? ?That doesn't make sense.
Hmmm. That's messy. I'll take a stab at what I THINK you meant and wait for a clarification: Kirk was conceived before the Narada's incursion which was my point
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Oh puhleeze.
I thought you'd like that.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Doesn't make it bad, just makes it what it is, SciFi.
Not bad, just sloppy. The whole point of stardates was to get around shows being telecast out of order. Nice and vague. The whole point of warp drive, phasers, deflectors, etc... (with the exception of the transporter which was purely dramatic in origin) was to extrapolate from known science.
STXI defenders have got their eye on the ball, but it's the wrong sport.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Just as writers should demand more from the viewers, I.E., letting them figure a few things out on their own.
Okay, figure out how Spock Prime misidentifies a tall blue eyed man as his friend Jim Kirk. And figure out how a preeminent scientist like Spock can blast through a singlurity without being spread out like butter or spagettified and how a Romulan miner could do the same?
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">So why would the writers have to make mention of the eye color? ?What relevance would that have to, well, anything?
See the above. The entire fraking plot HINGES on the timeline incursion and the changes to the timeline AFTER it occurs. So one more time for the cheap seats: How does an event that occured BEFORE the incursion (and I'll take you at your word) 7 months prior to be exact- genetically alter the central figure of the story? And why doesn't Spock Prime take note of that difference?
Or suggest slingshotting around the sun or visiting the Guardian of Forever for that matter? But he doesn't. He goes along blythely with everything.
The Many Worlds theory doesn't fly in the context of the movie, as seen in theatres. Period. But everything falls into place nicely if it's simply a parallel universe from the getgo. But that's not what the writers/producers have insisted on hanging their hat on.
Within any old soap or run of the mill drama, it would mean nothing. Simple recasting. But this is Trek. If you're going to base an entire story around a central idea (time travel) and averting a crisis by the same characters at an earlier stage in life, and the drama has as much genetic & time travel baggage as ST carries, then the details matter. A lot.
Meh. Might as well have made Uhura Caucasian. It makes as much sense.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">It was fine really, but for some reason you're making issues where they are none really.
No it wasn't fine. It was adequate. It was loud and fast and a summer popcorn flick. And for some reason you're hellbent on wearing blinders to it's shortcomings. Which is fine. |
