Star Trek

Quote (trekbuff @ July 21 2009, 4:35 pm)

Quote (God_in_an_Alcove @ July 21 2009, 7:22 pm) Quote (trekbuff @ July 09 2009, 10:48 am) Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ July 09 2009, 12:52 pm) Quote (trekbuff @ July 09 2009, 9:43 am) DS9 was a space A. It was a seven year arc. It was an interesting show, but it was not Trek. Quite the opposite is true. If anything it is the most TREK of any of the series based off of TOS. Remember Star Trek in all its forms is about "Boldly Going Where No One Has Gone Before". And about the only place the space station boldly went was closer to the worm hole. "Boldly Going" meant exploring, seeing what's out there. DS9 rarely did that. "Boldly going" was a tag-line, not a requirement. Star Trek, get it Trek. *Play Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generaton intro here* They even put it at the end of Enterprise which it should have been from the beginning, not stuck in some aimless TCW arc or a year long Xindi War arc. Now, bring on your arguements about how it wasn't a requirement for Star Trek to be about exploration and discovery. Before you do that, remember Yank's ratings chart and when the viewer numbers crashed. Before you do that, read this friggin' thread. It's all been covered.

Oh, so because "trek" is in the title, it has to be about exploration? Well, then, since the word "star" is in the title, then I guess that means that it has to take place in a solar system. Kirk battling Romulans in deep space? That's neither exporation or in a slar syste, so throw away "Balance of Terror." Picard's mind being taken over by an alien probe? All events were either in deep space or in Picard's head (which was also in deep space), so say good-bye, "The Inner Light."

And that's not even taking into account that the word "trek" doesn't even mean "explore."

Quote (trekbuff @ July 09 2009, 10:48 am)

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ July 09 2009, 12:52 pm) Quote (trekbuff @ July 09 2009, 9:43 am) DS9 was a space station. It was a seven year arc. It was an interesting show, but it was not Trek. Quite the opposite is true. If anything it is the most TREK of any of the series based off of TOS. Remember Star Trek in all its forms is about "Boldly Going Where No One Has Gone Before". And about the only place the space station boldly went was closer to the worm hole. "Boldly Going" meant exploring, seeing what's out there. DS9 rarely did that.

I also added "(Edit for Vice_Admiral_Baxter: not a trek)"

Before you accuse someone of tweaking anything, you should make sure that they tweaked it, first. The only difference I can see is that I somehow turned the word "station" into "A." Since such a change obviosly serves no purpose, it's obvious that it was an accident.

Quote (trekbuff @ July 21 2009, 5:33 pm)

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ July 21 2009, 7:46 pm) Ratings are so deceptive, and I refuse to explain it all again. Here's the quick and dirty: Quote (trekbuff @ July 09 2009, 1:48 pm) Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ July 09 2009, 12:52 pm) It most definitely went where no one has gone before and is probably the most original of any of the Star Trek series. The claim of its being "not TREK" is about as far from the truth as anyone can get. With all due respect. It was certainly the most original Trek series after ST(TOS). Saying it is my third favorite Trek series really doesn't do it justice. It was not, however, Trek or a trek. Going where no other Trek series had/has gone was a bold creative decision, but that's the inside looking out. Fascinating, fun and riviting stories, outstanding cast and characters and excellent special effects, these are what made DS9 a great series. DS9 took the saga of Trek and gave us a single setting to grow into and learn - a large Trek community and their interactions. ... There was, what will Odo catch Quark in next week? Or, when will Dukat show up again and what will he be up to? My favorite episode of DS9 and easily in my top ten episodes from all of Trek - Explorers. ... Getting away from exploration is what led to the decline in DS9 viewers. Those folks sure missed a lot of wonderful stories.... As for what exactly led to the decline in viewers remains a subject of debate. Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ July 09 2009, 2:15 pm) What lead to the decline in veiwers had more to do with two things: 1 st and foremost a more competitive market that it had when it started AND in comparison to the market when TNG was airing. (I don't think I need to break down that argument yet again) 2 The market itself had grown beyound being TREK only. I can guarantee for a fact if it had aired when TNG aired the ratings would probably been extremely higher than what they ended up being. The fact that it did amazingly well considered it competed with B5 and to a limited extent VOY, not to mention Sea Quest, Hercules and Xena. Showed that it was amazing regardless of what the rating reflected. I watched DS9, VOY, and Babylon 5. I wouldn't have missed DS9 for any other show. Quote (trekbuff @ July 09 2009, 3:13 pm) DS9: Nice intro music. Probably my favorite from all of the series. Mostly one thematic story from beginning to end - Bajor, Dukat, the Emessary. The Babylon 5 of Trek. There were a lot of side stories about the crew and Quark and we came to know more about them than any other Trek series characters, but it always came back to the central theme. ... Trek is a complex, intertwined concept with many threads making up the fabric - the future; space; science; who they are; who we are and will become; personality interaction, conflict and resolution; exploration; what they will do when they find it. As viewers, we are on the outside looking in, using the settings and what they do as a mirror to explore what we think and what we would do placing ourselves in the character's place. This is what Trek is to me. If it were only the human condition, there are many other venues to fill that niche. Trek is unique and what I feel Abrams failed to grasp. Every time watching DS9 was like coming home. The characters, their personalities, their interactions - all made DS9 a unique and fascinating Trek series. Those characters became almost like family. Of that, there is little debate for those of us who enjoyed the series. As both you and I have said, this has all been covered.

Thank you kind sir!

"Star Trek Deep Space 9" (as it is known and referred to in all legal documents)  ran for seven seasons, simultaneously with either TNG or Voyager, in national syndication.    True, it never had the ratings that TNG had, but for much of its run it was the B-followup on the late weekend slot on the same stations where TNG had a prime Saturday slot, more often than not.    

It was also substantially different than TNG in being based on a space station, BUT that had the happy circumstance of forcing writers to fully flesh out the Cardassian, Bajoran, and Ferengi races, and provided an opportunity to create serial multi-episode and multi-season story lines having to do with the Dominion War.    Many episodes also gave further life and development to the 'augments,' the relationship of the Breen to the galactic underworld, the history and traditions of the Bajoran religious creed, the tenderness hidden in the brutality of the Cardassians, the Federation's own moral dark side and all-too-human foibles, the tough and fragile aspects of Trill symbiants, the subtle gradiations of Klingon honor and deceit, and many many tiny woven segments that make up the huge tapestry of a great Trek Franchise.  

And I don't even want to get into the duality of the fan base that mirrors the Conservative-Liberal split of the US population right now, where one part of the fan base honors TOS and DS9 above all, while the other part of the base honors TNG, VOY and ENT above all.  

You're a DS9 Hater, trekbuff.   That reflects on you, not the series.  A lot of us think it was the high point of the whole franchise.

trekbuff
apologies,
i responded to your remarks on page three, but now i read page four.  i don't understand the "trek" thing, i think anything beyond sitting on your earthbound couch can be a 'trek'

whatever Sci Fi makes to replace Battlestar Galactica, I want James Cawley in it.  His time for breakout stardom has arrived.

Quote (trekbuff @ July 21 2009, 8:16 pm)

DS9 was a TV series based on Star Trek. It was, however, not a trek. Rather simple concept, actually.

True & more accurately not a conventional type of TREK.

i still think you have your shorts in a knot for NO reason over a nuanced definition of Trek that nobody else here shares to your degree.

Quote

And I don't even want to get into the duality of the fan base that mirrors the Conservative-Liberal split of the US population right now, where one part of the fan base honors TOS and DS9 above all, while the other part of the base honors TNG, VOY and ENT above all. ¿

Indeed. It's not only in the US, it's a world-wide phenomenon: conservative people love TOS more than TNG, liberal people love TNG more than TOS.

Quote

You're a DS9 Hater, trekbuff. ¿ That reflects on you, not the series. ¿A lot of us think it was the high point of the whole franchise.

There is also a large percentage of the fans that think TNG was the high point of the whole franchise.

It all depends on what kind of person you are, although something in me says that TNG offered more to humanity than DS9: TNG said 'we can evolve beyond our instincts' whereas DS9 said 'we are what we are, we can not evolve beyond that'.

Quote (anderbilt @ July 21 2009, 1:16 am)

i still think you have your shorts in a knot for NO reason over a nuanced definition of Trek that nobody else here shares to your degree.

No, I would say that trekbuff is right on the money with this one.

well, even after reading the discussion, i don't buy into the no-trek "trek" argument.  sorry.

Not as far as the Defiant or the distances from which other cultures and aliens appeared

Quote (trekbuff @ July 21 2009, 8:32 pm)

Quote (God_in_an_Alcove @ July 21 2009, 8:55 pm) Oh, so because "trek" is in the A, it has to be about exploration? Well, then, since the word "star" is in the title, then I guess that means that it has to take place in a solar system. Kirk battling Romulans in deep space? That's neither exporation or in a slar syste, so throw away "Balance of Terror." Picard's mind being taken over by an alien probe? All events were either in deep space or in Picard's head (which was also in deep space), so say good-bye, "The Inner Light." And that's not even taking into account that the word "trek" doesn't even mean "explore." I told you to read the thread. Oops...

Yes, yes, I know that you told me to do something I had already done. Just like you told others who disagree with your interpretation of things to do the same thing. Unless you're editing your comments, re-reading the thread won't reveal anything new.

Quote (trekbuff @ July 09 2009, 1:48 pm)

And about the only place the space station boldly went was closer to the worm hole.