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Best Voyager Bad Guy

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 2:49 pm

This is a topic I think could create some discussion.  There were a lot of Voyager bad guys.  Some we saw a few times, others just one time.  It wasn't like the other Trek shows where there was one or two main bad guys.  (with the exception of the old series).  Voyager also didn't have that Dukat character that DS9 had.  What do you guys think?

I would have to say my favorite Voyager bad guy was Lon Suder.  That guy scared the heck out of me, and he also made Tuvok his B$%$H.  Sure he got better, and tried to become a better person but I don't think there was a bad guy who actually creeped me out like he did on Star Trek.

SLagonia

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 3:19 pm

Voyager seemed to have a passionate dislike for episode to episode continuity, so very few villians ever appeared twice, and that means it's hard to pick a good villian out, because so few of them were really fleshed out.

My favorite by far was Annorax, who played one of the finest villians in Trek history in just a short two-part episode.  Many Trek characters have been compared to Captain Ahab, but this was the closest Trek really got.  He projected emotions and feelings onto time, making it his arch nemesis and forgetting what was right in front of him the entire time.

Yruc

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 3:35 pm

I liked Seska as a good villian.  She spanked Voyager a couple of times :)  Too bad they killed her off and didn't capture her to take with.  Now that would have been cool.  

And as SLagonia said  Annorax was a great episode villian.  Would have been nice to see him or more villians like him in other episodes.

SLagonia

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 3:42 pm

Quote (Yruc @ July 03 2009, 6:35 pm)
I liked Seska as a good villian. ?She spanked Voyager a couple of times :) ?Too bad they killed her off and didn't capture her to take with. ?Now that would have been cool. ?

I was talking in the other thread about taking the superficial elements of Trek into Voyager and leaving the core behind.  I mention that because people are going to say what follows is 'unTrek' or 'Too far away from Trek' when in fact it is in the finest tradition of Trek, and shows a new angle on something powerful;

Instead of killing Seska and sparing the child, I would have killed the child and saved Seska.  For this to work the baby would have to have been Chakotay's (it origionally was anyway until Jeri Taylor made a switch).  Having Seska and Chakotay close their arc here, coming together with someone you hate over the death of your mutual child, would have been a powerful and moving moment.  Having Chakotay and Seska find an understanding instead of that pointless sub-plot with the tribal aliens would have been far more in the spirit of Trek and Sci-fi in general, and far better than her 'for want of a fuse' death by the hands of the exploding console, and her arc with Chakotay closing not with a confrontation of any kind, but with him throwing a tarp over her and showing no emotion.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 4:51 pm

That is an interesting hypothesis but I doubt seriously that a child would ever be killed in a TV series, it would have been censured.  I do think though it would have been better if Jeri Taylor didn't make the switch because then Chakotay would have had to come to terms with the fact that his son was going to be raised by Kullah.  Perhaps Taylor thought that since Voyager was moving in one direction back to the alpha quadrant that they would have no choice but to leave Kazon space behind.

SLagonia

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 5:02 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ July 03 2009, 7:51 pm)
That is an interesting hypothesis but I doubt seriously that a child would ever be killed in a TV series, it would have been censured. ¿I do think though it would have been better if Jeri Taylor didn't make the switch because then Chakotay would have had to come to terms with the fact that his son was going to be raised by Kullah. ¿Perhaps Taylor thought that since Voyager was moving in one direction back to the alpha quadrant that they would have no choice but to leave Kazon space behind.

They kill babies and children all the time on TV.  Hell, Trek has done it often.  They killed The Doctor's child, they killed Trip and T'Pol's little baby, they killed baby Naomi (and brought her back) - There's no reason to think they couldn't do it.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 5:40 pm

Quote (SLagonia @ July 04 2009, 5:02 pm)
Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ July 03 2009, 7:51 pm)
That is an interesting hypothesis but I doubt seriously that a child would ever be killed in a TV series, it would have been censured. ?I do think though it would have been better if Jeri Taylor didn't make the switch because then Chakotay would have had to come to terms with the fact that his son was going to be raised by Kullah. ?Perhaps Taylor thought that since Voyager was moving in one direction back to the alpha quadrant that they would have no choice but to leave Kazon space behind.

They kill babies and children all the time on TV. ¿Hell, Trek has done it often. ¿They killed The Doctor's child, they killed Trip and T'Pol's little baby, they killed baby Naomi (and brought her back) - There's no reason to think they couldn't do it.

Yeah but each one of those examples has special circumstances that imply that "it isn't real."  Or that it is "an anomoly."  I think if a child was seen murdered it would have been a different story all together.  I think I know where you were going Seska might have had a Medea moment correct?

SLagonia

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 5:42 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ July 03 2009, 8:40 pm)
Quote (SLagonia @ July 04 2009, 5:02 pm)
Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ July 03 2009, 7:51 pm)
That is an interesting hypothesis but I doubt seriously that a child would ever be killed in a TV series, it would have been censured. ?I do think though it would have been better if Jeri Taylor didn't make the switch because then Chakotay would have had to come to terms with the fact that his son was going to be raised by Kullah. ?Perhaps Taylor thought that since Voyager was moving in one direction back to the alpha quadrant that they would have no choice but to leave Kazon space behind.

They kill babies and children all the time on TV. ?Hell, Trek has done it often. ?They killed The Doctor's child, they killed Trip and T'Pol's little baby, they killed baby Naomi (and brought her back) - There's no reason to think they couldn't do it.

Yeah but each one of those examples has special circumstances that imply that "it isn't real." ¿Or that it is "an anomoly." ¿I think if a child was seen murdered it would have been a different story all together. ¿I think I know where you were going Seska might have had a Medea moment correct?

I disagree, but even if you are correct, why be so safe?  Trek shouldn't be afraid to break new ground.

exodus201

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 7:01 pm

Yeah, killing children is a great new way for Trek to break ground. :eyesroll:

TransphasicTorpedoes

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 10:42 pm

The hologram that went around killing everyone with a wrench. Now thats bad.

Lynx677

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Report this Jul. 05 2009, 4:36 am

Culluh was the best bad guy in the series. it's a close call between him and Suder who was really creepy.

Augris of the Mokra Order was another bad guy worth mentioning.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Jul. 05 2009, 10:10 am

I think my favorite silly bad guy of all of the star treks was that clown guy played by Lenny (Michael McKeon).  He is a great actor its a shame that people only remember him for being Lenny on Laverne and Shirley.  He also played a character in the X-files one time.

Lynx677

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Report this Jul. 05 2009, 1:19 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ July 04 2009, 11:10 am)
I think my favorite silly bad guy of all of the star treks was that clown guy played by Lenny (Michael McKeon). ¿He is a great actor its a shame that people only remember him for being Lenny on Laverne and Shirley. ¿He also played a character in the X-files one time.

The Clown! Now how could I forget him?

I liked him too. Great character.

captbates

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Report this Jul. 05 2009, 4:45 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ July 04 2009, 9:36 am)
Culluh was the best bad guy in the series. it's a close call between him and Suder who was really creepy.

Augris of the Mokra Order was another bad guy worth mentioning.

Cullah? Interesting, I never really rated him at all, he just played second fiddle to Seska, who IMO was head and shoulders above the rest as far as bad guys go.

Suder was very good and Dejaren (the Isomorphic Projection) from Revulsion was great.

nthdrone

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Report this Jul. 05 2009, 7:42 pm

Seska was a great villain. I loved her!

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