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Jul. 07 2009, 10:04 pm
grigori is right in pointing out that the book changes only events that were not shown in Enterprise as they happened as in the previous episodes, but only those shown in the holograph history that Riker and Troi were in.
When I started to read the book, I realized that I didn't remember clearly all that was shown in TATV and went back rewatched it and then started reading the book again. It really is pretty fascinating how they explain what "really" happened as opposed to what was in TATV "history."
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Jul. 07 2009, 10:06 pm
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 9:20 pm) | | But one question.......are the books in question published by CBS\Paramount or licenseed like other Trek books??? |
The corporate incest is as follows: The books are published by Pocket Books Inc. which is owned by Simon & Schuster which is owned by CBS Corporation. Low and behold, CBS Corporation owns CBS/Paramount. From what I've read there is one executive that coordinates the Star Trek activity between the CBS companies. I can't remember that executive's name but I know that M51 know her name. |
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Jul. 07 2009, 10:53 pm
| Quote (grigori @ July 07 2009, 9:55 pm) | Stovokor: Martin/Mangels didn't arbitrarily "cherry-pick" a set of events to discard from canon; they used ONLY events that were ALREADY being presented second-hand. That's the beauty of it. It's also the crux of it. No other screen representation of Trek history can be said to be as open to re-telling as this particular hologram in this particular episode, so it would be impossible to reasonably extend the notion of re-telling to ANYTHING else, in ENT or any other series.
As I said, you won't find anything in the books that's indifferent to canon. I'll allow for taste, of course, but right now I'm dealing with your particular concerns.
I appreciate you as devil's advocate, Stovokor--you're good at it! to extend the metaphor, it's a necessary evil, for any worthwhile discussion.
But I come from a position of sharing many of your concerns and still was persuaded by the book. There's so much crap out there in ST fiction that I'd like to give the good stuff its due. |
I'm not suggesting anything was "arbitrarily" done about the book. My point is that calling any part of the series a lie cast doubt on the whole, particularly so because the accuser [metaphorically speaking of course] is a Novel. And "Traditionally" novel arent worth spit to canon. So for me its a hard swallow since the book is, "IN EFFECT" contradicting the show by saying what we were shown was a lie. I do want to say thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me. There arent many who would have done so with out getting personal. I also checked out the synopsis on Memery Beta and it seems quite well written. I might pick up the books and give them a read.........but view them the way I do all novels, Non canon. |
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Jul. 07 2009, 10:56 pm
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 10:53 pm) | | I might pick up the books and give them a read.........but view them the way I do all novels, Non canon. |
oh! I wasn't going so far as to try to convince you the books WERE canon! I know better. but I hope I defended the quality of the books / it isn't JUST that so many people disliked TATV and the books gave us a satisfactory frame for the events in that episode. |
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Jul. 07 2009, 11:01 pm
| Quote (Middleman @ July 07 2009, 10:06 pm) | | Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 9:20 pm) | | But one question.......are the books in question published by CBS\Paramount or licenseed like other Trek books??? |
The corporate incest is as follows: The books are published by Pocket Books Inc. which is owned by Simon & Schuster which is owned by CBS Corporation. Low and behold, CBS Corporation owns CBS/Paramount. From what I've read there is one executive that coordinates the Star Trek activity between the CBS companies. I can't remember that executive's name but I know that M51 know her name. |
So....to some degree CBS owns pock books???? To me that makes the canon issue of the books possible. |
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Jul. 07 2009, 11:03 pm
| Quote (grigori @ July 07 2009, 10:56 pm) | | but I hope I defended the quality of the books |
Well you certainly got me interested in buying the books. |
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Jul. 08 2009, 12:00 pm
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Jul. 08 2009, 12:08 pm
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | So....to some degree CBS owns pock books???? |
CBS owns 100% of PocketBooks through its ownership of Simon & Schuster, PocketBooks is further down the food chain. Ultimately its all one company lead (unfortunately) by Les Moonves. | Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | To me that makes the canon issue of the books possible. |
That's why I take the position that I take. I wouldn't consider the books canon if the ownership was otherwise. |
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Jul. 08 2009, 1:09 pm
| Quote (Middleman @ July 08 2009, 12:08 pm) | | Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | So....to some degree CBS owns pock books???? |
CBS owns 100% of PocketBooks through its ownership of Simon & Schuster, PocketBooks is further down the food chain. Ultimately its all one company lead (unfortunately) by Les Moonves.
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | To me that makes the canon issue of the books possible. |
That's why I take the position that I take. I wouldn't consider the books canon if the ownership was otherwise. |
Good to know.........thanks for the info. |
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Jul. 08 2009, 7:27 pm
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 08 2009, 1:09 pm) | | Quote (Middleman @ July 08 2009, 12:08 pm) | | Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | So....to some degree CBS owns pock books???? |
CBS owns 100% of PocketBooks through its ownership of Simon & Schuster, PocketBooks is further down the food chain. Ultimately its all one company lead (unfortunately) by Les Moonves.
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | To me that makes the canon issue of the books possible. |
That's why I take the position that I take. I wouldn't consider the books canon if the ownership was otherwise. |
Good to know.........thanks for the info. |
so now the books are canon fodder?  |
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Jul. 08 2009, 7:59 pm
| Quote (grigori @ July 08 2009, 7:27 pm) | | Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 08 2009, 1:09 pm) | | Quote (Middleman @ July 08 2009, 12:08 pm) | | Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | So....to some degree CBS owns pock books???? |
CBS owns 100% of PocketBooks through its ownership of Simon & Schuster, PocketBooks is further down the food chain. Ultimately its all one company lead (unfortunately) by Les Moonves.
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 07 2009, 11:01 pm) | | To me that makes the canon issue of the books possible. |
That's why I take the position that I take. I wouldn't consider the books canon if the ownership was otherwise. |
Good to know.........thanks for the info. |
so now the books are canon fodder? ¿ |
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that question. But to try to clear up my position.....the fact that the books are published by CBS [even thou its not directly] makes it a possibility that they are canon. |
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Jul. 08 2009, 8:05 pm
it was a pun. cannon fodder / canon fodder. well, it TRIED to be a pun. |
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Jul. 08 2009, 9:03 pm
I got it.  |
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Jul. 08 2009, 10:26 pm
| Quote (grigori @ July 08 2009, 8:05 pm) | | it was a pun. cannon fodder / canon fodder. well, it TRIED to be a pun. |
Well.........as I explained in an other thread, written jokes sometimes go over my head. The pitfalls of having Asperger's. |
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Jul. 08 2009, 10:28 pm
| Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 08 2009, 10:26 pm) | | Quote (grigori @ July 08 2009, 8:05 pm) | | it was a pun. cannon fodder / canon fodder. well, it TRIED to be a pun. |
Well.........as I explained in an other thread, written jokes sometimes go over my head.
The pitfalls of having Asperger's. |
MOST jokes go over my head...I've been accused of Asperger's! or just too single-minded and sort of anti-social, I don't know where the line is drawn |
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