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How where the BORG REALLY Created?

Captain_Storma

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POSTS: 11836

Report this Jul. 04 2009, 1:46 pm

The Borg were created some 4.500 years BC as stated in DESTINY. As long as there is no on screen version of the creation, this one is official.

Damien

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POSTS: 1484

Report this Jul. 04 2009, 3:01 pm

sorry but if there is no screen version there is no 'official'  no matter what book happens to be your favorite. Is destiny the shatnerverse book?

stovokor2000

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Report this Jul. 04 2009, 5:57 pm

Quote (Damien @ July 04 2009, 1:17 pm)
Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 03 2009, 1:49 pm)
If I remember correctly, Spock described the planet he saw i his meld with V'Ger, as a planet consisting completely of machines.

If that is the case then that planet could not be a Borg planet.

V,Ger encountered that planet somewhere in the 20th century, the Borg have been a race of cybernetic organismic since at least the 15th century.

Mindmelds are a very interpretive even when the Vulcan is in control, and Spock most definitely was NOT in control after he melded with Vger. if he only got a glimpse of the planet, as it appeared in the movie, then that is what Spock would interpret and report to Cpt Kirk. There still could have been billions of borg down there.

Also do you have a reference for the borg existing as far back as the 15th century? I don't think your wrong but I didn't know when they started and would like to know.

Are mind meld interpertive????

I was having this same argument with someone else.

I feel they are interpertive, he felt they were more like a video tape.

As for your question look up the Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth".

It was mentioned that the Borg first encountered a rase called the Vaadwaur back in the 15th century.

You can also read it here if you dont have the episode.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg_history
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Vaadwaur

WedgeBob

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POSTS: 436

Report this Jul. 04 2009, 8:55 pm

I was just watching the episode "Q Who" this evening on DVD, and it seems to show that Guinan explained that the Borg have been around for at least 1,000 years or something like that.

Damien

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POSTS: 1484

Report this Jul. 04 2009, 9:38 pm

I seem to remember Spock saying sometime that the meld was very subjective and personal.. Also think about how random our thought patterns are... here I am typing this post, chatting online with my sister, at the typing of the word sister I thought of my dad for some reason, teasing my daughter who is at my sis's house about how she has a huge pile of dishes to do when she gets back, thinking about the car trip to pick her up and 20 other random things etc etc. Now think about trying to sort through all that in search of one piece of info among a lifetime of memories. Very random and disjointed IMHO. and that's just with a human. Vger had far more information stored. You would think that Vger would have stored and accessed it better than we do but the movie would imply that is not the case. Vger was petulant and had forgotten things (planet of origin) plus the images we saw as spock was going through Vger were just as random and disjointed as my own thoughts. Plus Spock was overwhelmed by the power of Vgers mind he was not in control and was in no condition to look at anything other than what vger was thinking at the moment

Of course some of this is speculation on my part and I won't get grouchy with anyone who disagrees. ?BTW thanks for the borg origin links and references

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this Jul. 05 2009, 1:37 am

Quote (Damien @ July 04 2009, 9:38 pm)
I seem to remember Spock saying sometime that the meld was very subjective and personal.. Also think about how random our thought patterns are... here I am typing this post, chatting online with my sister, at the typing of the word sister I thought of my dad for some reason, teasing my daughter who is at my sis's house about how she has a huge pile of dishes to do when she gets back, thinking about the car trip to pick her up and 20 other random things etc etc. Now think about trying to sort through all that in search of one piece of info among a lifetime of memories. Very random and disjointed IMHO. and that's just with a human. Vger had far more information stored. You would think that Vger would have stored and accessed it better than we do but the movie would imply that is not the case. Vger was petulant and had forgotten things (planet of origin) plus the images we saw as spock was going through Vger were just as random and disjointed as my own thoughts. Plus Spock was overwhelmed by the power of Vgers mind he was not in control and was in no condition to look at anything other than what vger was thinking at the moment

Of course some of this is speculation on my part and I won't get grouchy with anyone who disagrees. ?BTW thanks for the borg origin links and references

Your welcome

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Jul. 05 2009, 11:32 am

Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 03 2009, 10:57 pm)
Quote (Damien @ July 04 2009, 1:17 pm)
Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 03 2009, 1:49 pm)
If I remember correctly, Spock described the planet he saw i his meld with V'Ger, as a planet consisting completely of machines.

If that is the case then that planet could not be a Borg planet.

V,Ger encountered that planet somewhere in the 20th century, the Borg have been a race of cybernetic organismic since at least the 15th century.

Mindmelds are a very interpretive even when the Vulcan is in control, and Spock most definitely was NOT in control after he melded with Vger. if he only got a glimpse of the planet, as it appeared in the movie, then that is what Spock would interpret and report to Cpt Kirk. There still could have been billions of borg down there.

Also do you have a reference for the borg existing as far back as the 15th century? I don't think your wrong but I didn't know when they started and would like to know.

Are mind meld interpertive????

I was having this same argument with someone else.

I feel they are interpertive, he felt they were more like a video tape.

As for your question look up the Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth".

It was mentioned that the Borg first encountered a rase called the Vaadwaur back in the 15th century.

You can also read it here if you dont have the episode.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg_history
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Vaadwaur

Many fans want a connection between V ger and the Borg, I'm not sure if thats a good idea, The Vaadwaur did know of the Borg circa 1400, but who's to say that the Borg didn't travel back in time to that period, there are still too many gaps in the facts.

WedgeBob

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POSTS: 436

Report this Jul. 05 2009, 4:09 pm

1400, that sounds about accurate...  Guinan's story seems to be right around there, from what I remember...

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this Jul. 05 2009, 6:51 pm

Quote (captbates @ July 05 2009, 11:32 am)
Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 03 2009, 10:57 pm)
Quote (Damien @ July 04 2009, 1:17 pm)
Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 03 2009, 1:49 pm)
If I remember correctly, Spock described the planet he saw i his meld with V'Ger, as a planet consisting completely of machines.

If that is the case then that planet could not be a Borg planet.

V,Ger encountered that planet somewhere in the 20th century, the Borg have been a race of cybernetic organismic since at least the 15th century.

Mindmelds are a very interpretive even when the Vulcan is in control, and Spock most definitely was NOT in control after he melded with Vger. if he only got a glimpse of the planet, as it appeared in the movie, then that is what Spock would interpret and report to Cpt Kirk. There still could have been billions of borg down there.

Also do you have a reference for the borg existing as far back as the 15th century? I don't think your wrong but I didn't know when they started and would like to know.

Are mind meld interpertive????

I was having this same argument with someone else.

I feel they are interpertive, he felt they were more like a video tape.

As for your question look up the Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth".

It was mentioned that the Borg first encountered a rase called the Vaadwaur back in the 15th century.

You can also read it here if you dont have the episode.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg_history
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Vaadwaur

Many fans want a connection between V ger and the Borg, I'm not sure if thats a good idea, The Vaadwaur did know of the Borg circa 1400, but who's to say that the Borg didn't travel back in time to that period, there are still too many gaps in the facts.

I doubt it but who knows.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jul. 05 2009, 6:51 pm

Quote (WedgeBob @ July 05 2009, 4:09 pm)
1400, that sounds about accurate... ¿Guinan's story seems to be right around there, from what I remember...

What story are you talking about???

robjkay

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POSTS: 1358

Report this Jul. 05 2009, 9:05 pm

The origin of the Borg is never made clear, though they are portrayed as having existed for thousands of centuries (as attested by Guinan and the Borg Queen). In Star Trek: First Contact, the Borg Queen merely states that the Borg were once much like humanity, "flawed and weak," but gradually developed into a partially synthetic species in an ongoing attempt to evolve and perfect themselves.

In TNG's "Q Who.", Guinan mentions that the Borg are "made up of organic and artificial life which has been developing for thousands of centuries.

In Voyager, "Dragon's Teeth", Gedrin says that before he and his people were put into suspended animation over 900 years ago, the Borg were just a few assimilated colonies inside the Delta quadrant and viewed somewhat like a minor pain.

The Star Trek Encyclopedia speculates that there could be a connection between the Borg and V'ger, the vessel encountered in Star Trek: The Motion Picture; this is advanced in William Shatner's novel, The Return. The connection was also suggested in a letter in Starlog #160 (November 1990). The letter writer, Christopher Haviland, also speculated that the original Borg drones were members of a race called "The Preservers", which Spock had suggested in the original series episode The Paradise Syndrome might be responsible for why so many humanoids populate the galaxy. Coincidentally, in the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture (written by Gene Roddenberry), the V'ger entity notes that the Ilia probe is resisting the programming given to it because of residual memories and feelings for Decker. When V'ger becomes aware of this, it is aware that "the resistance was futile, of course".

The extra section of the game Star Trek: Legacy contains the "Origin of the Borg", which tells the story of V'ger being sucked into a black hole. V'ger was found by a race of living machines which gave it a form suitable to fulfilling its simplistic programming. Unable to determine who its creator could be, the probe declared all carbon-based life an infestation of the creator's universe, leading to assimilation. From this, the Borg were created, as extensions of V'ger's purpose. Drones were made from those assimilated and merged into a collective consciousness. The Borg Queen was created out of the necessity for a single unifying voice. However, with thoughts and desires of her own, she was no longer bound to serve V'ger. This explanation, however, is not canon.

USSKirk

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Report this Jul. 10 2009, 6:08 am

Lucifer_

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Report this Jul. 10 2009, 6:37 pm

jn91669

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Report this Jul. 10 2009, 7:02 pm

I personally like the V'ger theory. I thinkthat the assimilation of Decker and Ilia was the catalyst to the Borg. If I am not mistaken the original King and Queen.

Lucifer_

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POSTS: 12834

Report this Jul. 11 2009, 12:17 am

Problem is, the Borg were around wayyyyy before that. IIRC, Guinan states they've been around for thousands of years.

Borg and V'Ger being connected is total horseshit...if V'Ger had learned everything in this universe there is to learn, why didn't it share this with the Borg? Surely the Borg would make sure the damned thing would share its knowledge with the collective if it was responsible for its coming into being. Furthermore, V'ger is absolutely nothing like a Borg vessel and I doubt the Borg is capable of duplicating the feats seen by the alien invader in TMP. V'ger doesn't assimilate like the Borg, it "digitizes" whatever it encounters into a form of data, including whole planets.

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