ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

How where the BORG REALLY Created?

gowboy

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1

Report this Jun. 29 2009, 10:42 pm

Does anyone know how the Borg were really created? Ive read several books and one said that it was us and vyger, another one said that it was a species known as the Caliear. Does anyone know for sure?

Khoufu_Khorushu

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3694

Report this Jun. 29 2009, 10:59 pm

I don't think there's any real canon answer.

Damien

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1484

Report this Jun. 29 2009, 11:05 pm

The actual creation of the borg has only been hinted at, officially, once that I know of and that was an after the fact convenient happenstance. While mindmelded with Vejur Spock claims he saw 'a machine planet' that repaired and reprogrammed Voyager and Vejur was born. That machine planet is generally assumed to be a borg planet.

If we take as fact that the planet Spock saw was borg (and it looked an awful lot like the assimilated earth in First Contact) then..

We know there was at least one borg planet prior to their encounter with the Voyager space probe

We don't know if there were any other borg planets or ships or not.
We don't know what the borg planet might have taken from the Voyager probe.. programming, technology etc

We know that that encounter caused an otherwise peaceful space probe to become a dangerous and petulant entity. It has been speculated that the same might have happened to the borg, perhaps they too were peaceful prior to the Voyager probe encounter. I disagree with this speculation. Again if we assume the planet Spock saw was borg I don't think one planet would have the resources to mechanize to the degree we saw, therefore those resources must have come from somewhere. Therefore I think they are getting the resources from other places, and I don't think they ask nicely for them either.

We have never seen a totally mechanical borg being, Therefore there was a species somewhere that must have tried to improve themselves mechanically and lost control. I suppose they could have made their computers too smart and were defeated by mechanicals and then assimilated but if that were the case I would think we would have seen totally mechanical beings from time to time.

Until it is said onscreen it is not official. I tend to pick and choose my own 'official' from whatever book/movie/TV I choose anyway.

thereR4lights

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2643

Report this Jun. 30 2009, 3:38 am

they made them selves geneticly better, then when that topped of they added machinacs... then history

intelegence and betterment of the species...#### now were drones ... i love the borg

WedgeBob

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 436

Report this Jun. 30 2009, 7:03 am

Well, iirc, besides TNG, I believe there was even an episode in Enterprise that had the Borg as well, and that was when they were first discovered.  So they do go back to the mid-22nd century, if that's the case.  Captain Archer only disabled them for a couple of centuries, then they reemerged during the 24th century, if stories tell it right.  They only choose Captain Picard to lead them to get back at Enterprise in revenge for what Captain Archer and Malcolm Reed did to them during the 22nd century...  Seems like that may be one theory.  Wonder if they were formed shortly before that time, or not...

lion_tone

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1140

Report this Jul. 01 2009, 3:06 pm

In Maurice Hurley's head...

Commander_Zelkar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7249

Report this Jul. 01 2009, 3:47 pm

It started out with the invention of the cell phone, and moved on from there.

challengerdyer

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 887

Report this Jul. 01 2009, 11:08 pm

I recall an interview with Gene Roddenberry where he had agreed with the theory that it was the Borg Homeworld that V'GER found. From his lips, I think that by itself should make it canon.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jul. 03 2009, 1:49 pm

Quote (Damien @ June 29 2009, 11:05 pm)
The actual creation of the borg has only been hinted at, officially, once that I know of and that was an after the fact convenient happenstance. While mindmelded with Vejur Spock claims he saw 'a machine planet' that repaired and reprogrammed Voyager and Vejur was born. That machine planet is generally assumed to be a borg planet.

If we take as fact that the planet Spock saw was borg (and it looked an awful lot like the assimilated earth in First Contact) then..

We know there was at least one borg planet prior to their encounter with the Voyager space probe

We don't know if there were any other borg planets or ships or not.
We don't know what the borg planet might have taken from the Voyager probe.. programming, technology etc

We know that that encounter caused an otherwise peaceful space probe to become a dangerous and petulant entity. It has been speculated that the same might have happened to the borg, perhaps they too were peaceful prior to the Voyager probe encounter. I disagree with this speculation. Again if we assume the planet Spock saw was borg I don't think one planet would have the resources to mechanize to the degree we saw, therefore those resources must have come from somewhere. Therefore I think they are getting the resources from other places, and I don't think they ask nicely for them either.

We have never seen a totally mechanical borg being, Therefore there was a species somewhere that must have tried to improve themselves mechanically and lost control. I suppose they could have made their computers too smart and were defeated by mechanicals and then assimilated but if that were the case I would think we would have seen totally mechanical beings from time to time.

Until it is said onscreen it is not official. I tend to pick and choose my own 'official' from whatever book/movie/TV I choose anyway.

If I remember correctly, Spock described the planet he saw i his meld with V'Ger, as a planet consisting completely of machines.

If that is the case then that planet could not be a Borg planet.

V,Ger encountered that planet somewhere in the 20th century, the Borg have been a race of cybernetic organismic since at least the 15th century.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Jul. 03 2009, 1:56 pm

Quote (WedgeBob @ June 29 2009, 12:03 pm)
Well, iirc, besides TNG, I believe there was even an episode in Enterprise that had the Borg as well, and that was when they were first discovered. ¿So they do go back to the mid-22nd century, if that's the case. ¿Captain Archer only disabled them for a couple of centuries, then they reemerged during the 24th century, if stories tell it right. ¿They only choose Captain Picard to lead them to get back at Enterprise in revenge for what Captain Archer and Malcolm Reed did to them during the 22nd century... ¿Seems like that may be one theory. ¿Wonder if they were formed shortly before that time, or not...

The Borg from Enterprise episode "Regeneration" were the same Borg from First Contact, so although they were present in that time period they were not from it.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jul. 03 2009, 2:05 pm

Quote (WedgeBob @ June 30 2009, 7:03 am)
Well, iirc, besides TNG, I believe there was even an episode in Enterprise that had the Borg as well, and that was when they were first discovered. ¿So they do go back to the mid-22nd century, if that's the case. ¿Captain Archer only disabled them for a couple of centuries, then they reemerged during the 24th century, if stories tell it right. ¿They only choose Captain Picard to lead them to get back at Enterprise in revenge for what Captain Archer and Malcolm Reed did to them during the 22nd century... ¿Seems like that may be one theory. ¿Wonder if they were formed shortly before that time, or not...

The Borg we see in "ENTERPRISE" were survivors from the Borg sphere that time traveled back to 2063 in the movie "FIRST CONTACT".

SLagonia

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 18170

Report this Jul. 03 2009, 3:38 pm

The Borg weren't just created one day.  Pretty much every theory I heard range from some nanites that ran amuck to a mad scientist who enslaved a population.  I really, really doubt it was anything that fanboish and stupid.  

The way I see it, The Borg represented an uncomfortable combination of man and machine.  Star Trek has been and always will be about humanity and the human condition, and technology has always been looked at as a threat to humanity.  Whether it be the holodecks malfunctioning or a super computer taking over the Enterprise, technology must not be too intrusive.  When we begin to lose our individuality and our humanity, we begin to lose all that has made us special.  

The Borg were a civilization that did not heed that warning.  They began to augment themselves with electronics until the need to improve technologicly became like a drug.  Before long, their humanity (for lack of a better term) was lost and efficiency and practicality were all that was left.  Collectivization was the final nail in the coffin, and the will of the individual was lost forever.  All it takes then is a single directive - Improve by any means neccissary.  Take what you need to survive and grow and leave nothing but rubble behind.  No mercy, no friendship, just efficient practicality.

SLagonia

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 18170

Report this Jul. 03 2009, 3:40 pm

Quote (challengerdyer @ July 01 2009, 2:08 am)
I recall an interview with Gene Roddenberry where he had agreed with the theory that it was the Borg Homeworld that V'GER found. From his lips, I think that by itself should make it canon.

He was joking.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Jul. 03 2009, 3:46 pm

Quote (SLagonia @ July 02 2009, 8:38 pm)
The Borg weren't just created one day. ?Pretty much every theory I heard range from some nanites that ran amuck to a mad scientist who enslaved a population. ?I really, really doubt it was anything that fanboish and stupid. ?

The way I see it, The Borg represented an uncomfortable combination of man and machine. ?Star Trek has been and always will be about humanity and the human condition, and technology has always been looked at as a threat to humanity. ?Whether it be the holodecks malfunctioning or a super computer taking over the Enterprise, technology must not be too intrusive. ?When we begin to lose our individuality and our humanity, we begin to lose all that has made us special. ?

The Borg were a civilization that did not heed that warning. ?They began to augment themselves with electronics until the need to improve technologicly became like a drug. ?Before long, their humanity (for lack of a better term) was lost and efficiency and practicality were all that was left. ?Collectivization was the final nail in the coffin, and the will of the individual was lost forever. ?All it takes then is a single directive - Improve by any means neccissary. ?Take what you need to survive and grow and leave nothing but rubble behind. ?No mercy, no friendship, just efficient practicality.

Yep, that seems to be the logical way the Borg would start off, a humanoid race augmenting themselves with harmless technology, better vision, increased muscle power, an interface direct to the brain, we've seen it all before in other Sci-fi shows, and we're very close to going down that road ourselves.

Damien

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1484

Report this Jul. 04 2009, 1:17 pm

Quote (stovokor2000 @ July 03 2009, 1:49 pm)
If I remember correctly, Spock described the planet he saw i his meld with V'Ger, as a planet consisting completely of machines.

If that is the case then that planet could not be a Borg planet.

V,Ger encountered that planet somewhere in the 20th century, the Borg have been a race of cybernetic organismic since at least the 15th century.

Mindmelds are a very interpretive even when the Vulcan is in control, and Spock most definitely was NOT in control after he melded with Vger. if he only got a glimpse of the planet, as it appeared in the movie, then that is what Spock would interpret and report to Cpt Kirk. There still could have been billions of borg down there.

Also do you have a reference for the borg existing as far back as the 15th century? I don't think your wrong but I didn't know when they started and would like to know.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum