ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

"Dumbing down"

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 3:46 pm

Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 26 2009, 1:56 pm)
Look......NONE of the Star Trek movies were as Dumb as the mess Abrams put out NOT even Star Trek 5,
Nemesis is a Masterpiece compared to this crap..
So your question is moot
Abrams and those two boneheads who wrote the movie has dumb Star Trek down to the lowest levels of idiocy,

Then why are you still having trouble understanding it?

Odd....

PhantomCrunk007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5088

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 3:48 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:39 am)
Quote (HaventGotALife @ June 27 2009, 12:29 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:10 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 27 2009, 12:06 am)
Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 25 2009, 4:04 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ June 25 2009, 4:00 pm)
the fact that it had the pace of a movie and not a slow, drawn out 2-hour episode.

The pace was a litle too fast as a result the story suffered. :logical:

How did the pace of the movie make the story suffer? Be specific.

IMO it felt as if the movie was racing from one action/SFX scene to the next. Just for their own sake... as if the authors were unable to write an interesting story.
It felt as if the action scenes were carved in stone, and the rest was worked around it.
My impression at least.

I don't care how the film-makers start the movie. I care if it makes sense, has continuity, and a theme. This movie hit all those buttons. Stop saying the action was useless. The only useless graphic were the insect-like things that attacked Kirk on Delta Vega.

Generations had useless action scenes.

Name one!

NEMESIS: Argo scene. Agreed.

Crashing the Enterprise into the narada. It was bad because if they were gonna do that, they should have completely destroyed the Enterprise in the process. In fact that would have been better than data dying. Enterprise E rams Narada, All hands lost. Best ending for TNG. Blaze of glory, baby.

HaventGotALife

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 760

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 3:50 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:39 pm)
Quote (HaventGotALife @ June 27 2009, 12:29 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:10 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 27 2009, 12:06 am)
Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 25 2009, 4:04 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ June 25 2009, 4:00 pm)
the fact that it had the pace of a movie and not a slow, drawn out 2-hour episode.

The pace was a litle too fast as a result the story suffered. :logical:

How did the pace of the movie make the story suffer? Be specific.

IMO it felt as if the movie was racing from one action/SFX scene to the next. Just for their own sake... as if the authors were unable to write an interesting story.
It felt as if the action scenes were carved in stone, and the rest was worked around it.
My impression at least.

I don't care how the film-makers start the movie. I care if it makes sense, has continuity, and a theme. This movie hit all those buttons. Stop saying the action was useless. The only useless graphic were the insect-like things that attacked Kirk on Delta Vega.

Generations had useless action scenes.

Name one!

NEMESIS: Argo scene. Agreed.

--The Destruction of the Enterprise-D. and killing Lursa and B'Ehtor.

What cuts across Generations?

death? fulfillment? lineage?

These concepts, not the direct action, need to be mirrored from one Enterprise to the other.

What a bad movie. That was bad Trek. XI is not.

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 4:09 pm

Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ June 27 2009, 12:48 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:39 am)
Quote (HaventGotALife @ June 27 2009, 12:29 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:10 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 27 2009, 12:06 am)
Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 25 2009, 4:04 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ June 25 2009, 4:00 pm)
the fact that it had the pace of a movie and not a slow, drawn out 2-hour episode.

The pace was a litle too fast as a result the story suffered. :logical:

How did the pace of the movie make the story suffer? Be specific.

IMO it felt as if the movie was racing from one action/SFX scene to the next. Just for their own sake... as if the authors were unable to write an interesting story.
It felt as if the action scenes were carved in stone, and the rest was worked around it.
My impression at least.

I don't care how the film-makers start the movie. I care if it makes sense, has continuity, and a theme. This movie hit all those buttons. Stop saying the action was useless. The only useless graphic were the insect-like things that attacked Kirk on Delta Vega.

Generations had useless action scenes.

Name one!

NEMESIS: Argo scene. Agreed.

Crashing the Enterprise into the narada. It was bad because if they were gonna do that, they should have completely destroyed the Enterprise in the process. In fact that would have been better than data dying. Enterprise E rams Narada, All hands lost. Best ending for TNG. Blaze of glory, baby.

You mean the Scimitar right?

Picard was desperate... he wanted to stop the weapon at any cost.

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 4:11 pm

Quote (HaventGotALife @ June 27 2009, 12:50 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:39 pm)
Quote (HaventGotALife @ June 27 2009, 12:29 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:10 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 27 2009, 12:06 am)
Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 25 2009, 4:04 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ June 25 2009, 4:00 pm)
the fact that it had the pace of a movie and not a slow, drawn out 2-hour episode.

The pace was a litle too fast as a result the story suffered. :logical:

How did the pace of the movie make the story suffer? Be specific.

IMO it felt as if the movie was racing from one action/SFX scene to the next. Just for their own sake... as if the authors were unable to write an interesting story.
It felt as if the action scenes were carved in stone, and the rest was worked around it.
My impression at least.

I don't care how the film-makers start the movie. I care if it makes sense, has continuity, and a theme. This movie hit all those buttons. Stop saying the action was useless. The only useless graphic were the insect-like things that attacked Kirk on Delta Vega.

Generations had useless action scenes.

Name one!

NEMESIS: Argo scene. Agreed.

--The Destruction of the Enterprise-D. and killing Lursa and B'Ehtor.

What cuts across Generations?

death? fulfillment? lineage?

These concepts, not the direct action, need to be mirrored from one Enterprise to the other.

What a bad movie. That was bad Trek. XI is not.

Destruction of the Enterprise was just another plotpoint dealing with loss (one of the best scenes is Picard's and Riker's dialogue at the end, which sums it up perfectly).

The death of the Duras sisters? What was wrong with that? It was E-D's selfdefense.

PhantomCrunk007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5088

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 4:12 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 1:09 am)
Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ June 27 2009, 12:48 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:39 am)
Quote (HaventGotALife @ June 27 2009, 12:29 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:10 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 27 2009, 12:06 am)
Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 25 2009, 4:04 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ June 25 2009, 4:00 pm)
the fact that it had the pace of a movie and not a slow, drawn out 2-hour episode.

The pace was a litle too fast as a result the story suffered. :logical:

How did the pace of the movie make the story suffer? Be specific.

IMO it felt as if the movie was racing from one action/SFX scene to the next. Just for their own sake... as if the authors were unable to write an interesting story.
It felt as if the action scenes were carved in stone, and the rest was worked around it.
My impression at least.

I don't care how the film-makers start the movie. I care if it makes sense, has continuity, and a theme. This movie hit all those buttons. Stop saying the action was useless. The only useless graphic were the insect-like things that attacked Kirk on Delta Vega.

Generations had useless action scenes.

Name one!

NEMESIS: Argo scene. Agreed.

Crashing the Enterprise into the narada. It was bad because if they were gonna do that, they should have completely destroyed the Enterprise in the process. In fact that would have been better than data dying. Enterprise E rams Narada, All hands lost. Best ending for TNG. Blaze of glory, baby.

You mean the Scimitar right?

Picard was desperate... he wanted to stop the weapon at any cost.

Yes, corrected, the schimitar

gof

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4455

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 5:05 pm

It looks like a lighting storm is space.....

DammitJim6200

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6876

Report this Jun. 27 2009, 12:00 am

Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 25 2009, 4:46 pm)
Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 26 2009, 1:56 pm)
Look......NONE of the Star Trek movies were as Dumb as the mess Abrams put out NOT even Star Trek 5,
Nemesis is a Masterpiece compared to this crap..
So your question is moot
Abrams and those two boneheads who wrote the movie has dumb Star Trek down to the lowest levels of idiocy,

Then why are you still having trouble understanding it?

Odd....

Oh I have no trouble at all it's you who needs things spelled out for you in  BOLD LETTERS..HA  :laugh:

DarthRage

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 27 2009, 1:15 am

Quote (DrGojira @ June 26 2009, 10:06 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 25 2009, 1:02 pm)
Now I know I've read about this complaint several times....feline quadruped got your tongues?

Apparently you've missed the several times its been posted that all Trek movies are "dumbed down" compared to the TV episodes.

That isn't the topic of this post friendo.

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Jun. 27 2009, 2:32 am

Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 27 2009, 12:00 am)
Oh I have no trouble at all it's you who needs things spelled out for you in ¿BOLD LETTERS..HA ¿:laugh:

Oh DJ, you slay me....

newKirk

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 387

Report this Jun. 27 2009, 3:07 am

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 2:18 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 26 2009, 10:14 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 2:11 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 10:05 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Again, Kirk offered Nero help. Not sure how much clearer that fact can be. What, did you expect a debate between the two arguing the merits of being saved and a lifetime in prison or instant death? Not a lot of time there for a lively debate.

He could have simply beamed him out... or he could have done nothing!

The "Fire" order was wrong.

Btw... check your ST III, Kruge was holding Kirk, and he would have died.

Pic



This was selfdefense.

Kirk's final attack on Nero was unnecessary.

I have to agree with you on this one. Beaming the crew off the Narada whether they wanted to go or not is what Kirk would have done. Then they would have destroyed his ship.


You could chalk it up to youth and the fact that maybe young Kirk hasn't found his ideals yet, but the older Kirk would not have done that in my opinion.

It was simply to un-Kirk-like for me.

Yeah... original Kirk was also arrogant from time to time (just finished watching season 1 on Bluray... Bluray rocks).
But NEVER like that.
He was actually a character you could look up to, whereas alternate Kirk has nowhere the class, nor the maturity of his counterpart.

this new kirk is very likeable, he is the same head strong, asseertive, self assured guy that we know.. it is clear in this timeline the crew seems to all be a few years younger.. so I attribute some of kirk's actions as being not as mature as we know him later, but I have no problem with any of his actions, they are mostly in keeping with the original kirk I knew.. this new kirk took a beating physically..

31st_Century_Temporal_Age
nt

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 845

Report this Jun. 30 2009, 4:13 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 9:31 pm)
And the new one is about discovery of self-worth and one's place in the cosmos...doesn't sound dumb to me.

Well IMO it was about:

Be arrogant, and you will beat anyone.

Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Beat your way through life.

Do not follow orders...

Shall I go on?

Most of these seem accurate except the  

Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Kirk tried to show compassion at the end towards Nero but Nero threw it right back in his face. Spock was actually the one in this scene that was not thinking logically.

I cannot think of another part of this movie that this one idea was present?

Vorta_the_point

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 624

Report this Jun. 30 2009, 4:55 pm

Quote (31st_Century_Temporal_Agent @ June 30 2009, 9:13 pm)
Kirk tried to show compassion at the end towards Nero but Nero threw it right back in his face. Spock was actually the one in this scene that was not thinking logically.

I cannot think of another part of this movie that this one idea was present?

I agree - in addition, I'd go further and suggest that Kirk acted competently and made the correct decision for him and his crew.

While the Narada was compromised from the Red Matter detonation, a lot of the superstructure was still intact, and Kirk had no idea whether Nero's weapon systems were still operational or could be brought back online, or even the Narada's full capabilities; the ship is from the future, what if Nero had activated a previously unknown weapon system or capability of the ship?

Kirk had offered Nero surrender and rescue, and Nero had made it clear in the most emphatic way possible that he would keep fighting until the very last. There was nothing more Kirk could do to ensure Nero or his crew's survival (lowering the shields to forcibly transport Nero and crew to safety would be potential suicide), so the most logical course of action would be to protect his ship and crew from any last ditch attempts from Nero by further disabling the Narada, ensuring that it can't make any final attacks before it's destruction.

The fact that he even contemplated offering Nero the chance of survival, considering that Nero was guilty of killing his father, trying to destroy his homeworld and the genocide of the Vulcans, speaks well of his competency and command capabilities.

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009 @ 12:36 pm)
Well IMO it was about:

Be arrogant, and you will beat anyone.

...

Beat your way through life.

Captain_Storma, which bits of the film were you referring to regarding these two impressions?

Vice_Adm_Baxter

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Jun. 30 2009, 5:19 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:39 pm)
Quote (HaventGotALife @ June 27 2009, 12:29 am)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 4:10 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 27 2009, 12:06 am)
Quote (DammitJim6200 @ June 25 2009, 4:04 pm)
Quote (NuclearWessels @ June 25 2009, 4:00 pm)
the fact that it had the pace of a movie and not a slow, drawn out 2-hour episode.

The pace was a litle too fast as a result the story suffered. :logical:

How did the pace of the movie make the story suffer? Be specific.

IMO it felt as if the movie was racing from one action/SFX scene to the next. Just for their own sake... as if the authors were unable to write an interesting story.
It felt as if the action scenes were carved in stone, and the rest was worked around it.
My impression at least.

I don't care how the film-makers start the movie. I care if it makes sense, has continuity, and a theme. This movie hit all those buttons. Stop saying the action was useless. The only useless graphic were the insect-like things that attacked Kirk on Delta Vega.

Generations had useless action scenes.

Name one!

NEMESIS: Argo scene. Agreed.

GEN: Death of Kirk(the whole act of killing him off was useless, since it didn't have to happen)

Anyacat

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 948

Report this Jul. 01 2009, 12:11 pm

Kirk goes from untried ensign to captain after one action. Unbelievably stupid.

Spock, whose iron control of his passions and emotions made him the emotional center of TOS, is reduced to a mewling babe who falls into  the arms of a junior officer and lets the entire crew in on it.

The story itself was stupid. Spock could easily have gone back, fixed the problem and saved all those planets.

Young Kirk just happens to be marooned by an emotionally distraught Spock on a planet where he just happens to run into older Spock.

It's not that the story is dumbed down, it's that the story is stupid, pointless and ultimately like every other running, jumping, falling down movie aimed at the 18 to 25 year old male because the rest of us don't go to the movies.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum