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"Dumbing down"

Mirrorgirl

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15692

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:51 pm

If Scotty had followed orders the Enterprise would have been blown to pieces in 'A Taste of Armageddon'

Do I need to go on??? :p

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:56 pm

Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:56 pm

If Picard had followed orders then the Borg would have wiped out the whole fleet and then would have successfully gone back in time and assimilated Earth.

If Picard would have followed orders then a small settlement would have been temporarily relocated and Federation Scientists would have been able to study a phenomenon that could cure disease and other disabilities for billions of people...

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:04 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

You're right.  Let's hope he never faces off with an enemy on a self destroying planet and kicks him in the face till he falls off of a cliff.

;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.


So what?  Some people are like that.  S o   w h a t? Does it take away from the fact that he tried to rescue two different crew members, tried to be of service to his Captain and warn what was going on, helped to save his homeworld?  Tried to save another world? Etc?

No, none of that matters apparently.  What apparently is the larger issue is that he acts a little ####y...

Quote
Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Ehh, "Smokin Aces" wasn't that dumbed down.

DarthRage

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:05 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Again, Kirk offered Nero help. Not sure how much clearer that fact can be. What, did you expect a debate between the two arguing the merits of being saved and a lifetime in prison or instant death? Not a lot of time there for a lively debate.

Mirrorgirl

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15692

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:09 pm

I'll second the bit about Pine being a fine actor

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:11 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 10:05 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Again, Kirk offered Nero help. Not sure how much clearer that fact can be. What, did you expect a debate between the two arguing the merits of being saved and a lifetime in prison or instant death? Not a lot of time there for a lively debate.

He could have simply beamed him out... or he could have done nothing!

The "Fire" order was wrong.

Btw... check your ST III, Kruge was holding Kirk, and he would have died.

Pic



This was selfdefense.

Kirk's final attack on Nero was unnecessary.

SpaceTherapist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6370

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:14 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 2:11 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 10:05 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Again, Kirk offered Nero help. Not sure how much clearer that fact can be. What, did you expect a debate between the two arguing the merits of being saved and a lifetime in prison or instant death? Not a lot of time there for a lively debate.

He could have simply beamed him out... or he could have done nothing!

The "Fire" order was wrong.

Btw... check your ST III, Kruge was holding Kirk, and he would have died.

Pic



This was selfdefense.

Kirk's final attack on Nero was unnecessary.

I have to agree with you on this one. Beaming the crew off the Narada whether they wanted to go or not is what Kirk would have done. Then they would have destroyed his ship.


You could chalk it up to youth and the fact that maybe young Kirk hasn't found his ideals yet, but the older Kirk would not have done that in my opinion.

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:18 pm

Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 26 2009, 10:14 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 2:11 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 10:05 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Again, Kirk offered Nero help. Not sure how much clearer that fact can be. What, did you expect a debate between the two arguing the merits of being saved and a lifetime in prison or instant death? Not a lot of time there for a lively debate.

He could have simply beamed him out... or he could have done nothing!

The "Fire" order was wrong.

Btw... check your ST III, Kruge was holding Kirk, and he would have died.

Pic



This was selfdefense.

Kirk's final attack on Nero was unnecessary.

I have to agree with you on this one. Beaming the crew off the Narada whether they wanted to go or not is what Kirk would have done. Then they would have destroyed his ship.


You could chalk it up to youth and the fact that maybe young Kirk hasn't found his ideals yet, but the older Kirk would not have done that in my opinion.

It was simply to un-Kirk-like for me.

Yeah... original Kirk was also arrogant from time to time (just finished watching season 1 on Bluray... Bluray rocks).
But NEVER like that.
He was actually a character you could look up to, whereas alternate Kirk has nowhere the class, nor the maturity of his counterpart.

SpaceTherapist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6370

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:20 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 2:18 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 26 2009, 10:14 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 2:11 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 10:05 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Again, Kirk offered Nero help. Not sure how much clearer that fact can be. What, did you expect a debate between the two arguing the merits of being saved and a lifetime in prison or instant death? Not a lot of time there for a lively debate.

He could have simply beamed him out... or he could have done nothing!

The "Fire" order was wrong.

Btw... check your ST III, Kruge was holding Kirk, and he would have died.

Pic



This was selfdefense.

Kirk's final attack on Nero was unnecessary.

I have to agree with you on this one. Beaming the crew off the Narada whether they wanted to go or not is what Kirk would have done. Then they would have destroyed his ship.


You could chalk it up to youth and the fact that maybe young Kirk hasn't found his ideals yet, but the older Kirk would not have done that in my opinion.

It was simply to un-Kirk-like for me.

Yeah... original Kirk was also arrogant from time to time (just finished watching season 1 on Bluray... Bluray rocks).
But NEVER like that.
He was actually a character you could look up to, whereas alternate Kirk has nowhere the class, nor the maturity of his counterpart.

Young Kirk has the arrogance and the swagger but he does need the maturity.

NuclearWessels

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9845

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:20 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 11:18 am)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 26 2009, 10:14 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 25 2009, 2:11 pm)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 10:05 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:56 pm)
Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 26 2009, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

This does not mean, that he has to contribute to his doom.

His "Fire" order was completely out of place.

Pine's Kirk was way to arrogant for my taste (equivalent with IMO, so don't start insulting me... ;) ). The Bar scene, the Kobayashi Maru, most of his scenes aboard the Enterprise.

Pine's is a fine actor, I guess it was the "dumbed down" script, which really spoiled the whole thing... IMO.

Again, Kirk offered Nero help. Not sure how much clearer that fact can be. What, did you expect a debate between the two arguing the merits of being saved and a lifetime in prison or instant death? Not a lot of time there for a lively debate.

He could have simply beamed him out... or he could have done nothing!

The "Fire" order was wrong.

Btw... check your ST III, Kruge was holding Kirk, and he would have died.

Pic



This was selfdefense.

Kirk's final attack on Nero was unnecessary.

I have to agree with you on this one. Beaming the crew off the Narada whether they wanted to go or not is what Kirk would have done. Then they would have destroyed his ship.


You could chalk it up to youth and the fact that maybe young Kirk hasn't found his ideals yet, but the older Kirk would not have done that in my opinion.

It was simply to un-Kirk-like for me.

Yeah... original Kirk was also arrogant from time to time (just finished watching season 1 on Bluray... Bluray rocks).
But NEVER like that.
He was actually a character you could look up to, whereas alternate Kirk has nowhere the class, nor the maturity of his counterpart.

The Kirk in the "original" timeline had a father to help him along the way.  This Kirk didn't.  So its understandable that certain aspects of his life would be different.

DarthRage

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:25 pm

AND...didn't Spock pretty much tell Kirk to screw Nero? Where's the outrage over that?

SpaceTherapist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6370

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:29 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 25 2009, 2:25 pm)
AND...didn't Spock pretty much tell Kirk to screw Nero? Where's the outrage over that?

I have mixed feelings about that. One the one hand it bothered me because well know Spock Prime probably would not say or do that.

On the other hand I found the line to be humorously ironic because it is so out of character for Spock but understandable because he is still struggling with his sense of self and identity and has lived through the trauma not only of the death of his mother but the destruction of his entire planet. So for that reason I can have empathy.

NuclearWessels

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9845

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:34 pm

Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 26 2009, 11:29 am)
Quote (DarthRage @ June 25 2009, 2:25 pm)
AND...didn't Spock pretty much tell Kirk to screw Nero? Where's the outrage over that?

I have mixed feelings about that. One the one hand it bothered me because well know Spock Prime probably would not say or do that.

On the other hand I found the line to be humorously ironic because it is so out of character for Spock but understandable because he is still struggling with his sense of self and identity and has lived through the trauma not only of the death of his mother but the destruction of his entire planet. So for that reason I can have empathy.

An emotionally compromised Spock-Prime may have done the same thing.  Just like how an emotionally compromised Spock-Prime slapped the phaser out of Valeris's hand after finding out what she had done.

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 1:34 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 10:25 pm)
AND...didn't Spock pretty much tell Kirk to screw Nero? Where's the outrage over that?

Oh... I won't start with alternate Spock, since I have nothing good to tell about him at all...  ;)

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