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"Dumbing down"

DarthRage

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 11:31 am

I hear that a lot from certain posters here concerning the new movie. I'm curious which Star Trek movies they consider were not dumbed down. Please explain why these movies were not considered dumbed down, so we can begin a discussion of compare and contrast.

DarthRage

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POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:02 pm

Now I know I've read about this complaint several times....feline quadruped got your tongues?

Mirrorgirl

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POSTS: 15692

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:02 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 27 2009, 2:02 am)
Now I know I've read about this complaint several times....feline quadruped got your tongues?

:laugh:  :laugh:

axilmar1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1576

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:10 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 11:31 am)
I hear that a lot from certain posters here concerning the new movie. I'm curious which Star Trek movies they consider were not dumbed down. Please explain why these movies were not considered dumbed down, so we can begin a discussion of compare and contrast.

It's simple: previous movies did not have such big plot holes/mistakes. They made more sense. They had a conclusion. A theme. A topic about humanity. A philosophical subject.

This new movie doesn't have anything like that. It's just flashy action without substance.

Even the so called 'overcome yourself, you have a destiny etc' is not developed enough. The action overshadows it.

Captain_Storma

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:26 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 8:31 pm)
I hear that a lot from certain posters here concerning the new movie. I'm curious which Star Trek movies they consider were not dumbed down. Please explain why these movies were not considered dumbed down, so we can begin a discussion of compare and contrast.

Starting with TUC: Political story pretty much mirroring the end of the Cold War.

GEN: A very serious theme about loss and the sense of life (many people simply did not get it, so they call it dumb).

FC: Revenge, madness and the realisation that this leads to selfdestruction (Picard's scene with Lilly in the conference room is a classic).

INS: Rights of minorities.

NEM: Life and it's alternatives.

Those are my impressions of course, and are not objective. Hope this helps you to clear things up.

DarthRage

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:31 pm

And the new one is about discovery of self-worth and one's place in the cosmos...doesn't sound dumb to me.

Captain_Storma

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POSTS: 11836

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:36 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 9:31 pm)
And the new one is about discovery of self-worth and one's place in the cosmos...doesn't sound dumb to me.

Well IMO it was about:

Be arrogant, and you will beat anyone.

Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Beat your way through life.

Do not follow orders...

Shall I go on?

WkdYngMan

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POSTS: 3951

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:38 pm

You've described a lot of Star Trek there.

Quote
Shall I go on?


You don't have anything of merit to add.

axilmar1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1576

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:39 pm

Quote (DarthRage @ June 26 2009, 12:31 pm)
And the new one is about discovery of self-worth and one's place in the cosmos...doesn't sound dumb to me.

It is not dumb, but it is not developed enough in STXI.

NuclearWessels

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POSTS: 9845

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:41 pm

Quote
Do not follow orders...

Kirk disobeying orders resulted in preventing the Klingons from gaining knowledge of Genesis. Spock disobeying orders resulted in the Khitomer accords being signed by the Federation and the Klingon Empire. Picard disobeying orders resulted in the preservation of the timeline. Data disobeying orders resulted in preventing the Romulans from assisting the Duras sisters in the Klingon civil war. What's your point?

DarthRage

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POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:42 pm

You can go on all day long. Arrogent? I assume you are referring to the bar scene? Looked to me like self defense. No compassion, kill your enemies? You mean the enemies who refused assitance, and helping them would ensure your own demise? I seem to remember Kirk offering to help Nero, and Nero spitting in has face in refusal. You must have missed that. Do not follow orders? How many times has the Prime Directive been broken in the TV shows and movies? Too many to list here. Beat your way through life? Can you give an example?

WkdYngMan

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POSTS: 3951

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:45 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ June 26 2009, 12:36 pm)
Do not show compassion, kill your enemies when they lie on their knees.

Conveniently forgetting the fact that he offered them assistance and Nero refused.

Mirrorgirl

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POSTS: 15692

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:46 pm

If Kirk had obeyed orders Spock would have been destroyed with the Genesis planet.

Lucky all those Nazi's followed Hitler's orders, eh? :eyesroll:

DarthRage

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POSTS: 289

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:47 pm

"Lucky all those Nazi's followed Hitler's orders, eh? "

ZING....

Mirrorgirl

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15692

Report this Jun. 26 2009, 12:50 pm

If Sulu had followed orders the Federation President would have been killed at Khitomer

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