ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Borg vs the Dominion

Vortaborg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 126

Report this Jun. 14 2009, 6:21 pm

We haven't seen what happens when the borg come across a species they can't assimilate. Well, maybe we have, they just keep trying in vain, like they did with Species 8472. They kept injecting nano-probes even though they weren't working. But, changelings are different. They don't have blood and can't be assimilated by means of it.

But, the other species in the dominion could. Even the Jem-Hadar as the borg can re-sequence and re-write DNA. So, they could give them the enzyme they need. Only problem is I think the Jem'Hadar and Vorta would commit suicide rather than be assimilated and betray the founders. The whole Borg vs Dominion war would be a campaign of nothing but kamikaze Dominion ship attacks on borg vessels.

Do you think the borg know of the dominion even? They have the transwarp hubs in each quadrant, and the dominion possess hundreds of star systems in the gamma quadrant. They did assimilate a few people in first contact who knew about the dominion, but since they were hundreds of years in the past that knowledge may have never reached the collective.

Davros_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 432

Report this Jun. 14 2009, 6:28 pm

Borg for the win. Their industrial capacity far outstrips that of the Dominion and their ability to transwarp is a huge tactical advantage. Jem'Hadar soldiers also charge headlong into battle, meaning that they would get assimilated by the shambling cyber zombies as soon as they were within arms reach. :bored:

Vortaborg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 126

Report this Jun. 14 2009, 6:46 pm

Quote (Davros_ @ June 14 2009, 6:28 pm)
Borg for the win. Their industrial capacity far outstrips that of the Dominion and their ability to transwarp is a huge tactical advantage. Jem'Hadar soldiers also charge headlong into battle, meaning that they would get assimilated by the shambling cyber zombies as soon as they were within arms reach. :bored:

Oh, yes actually. Don't get wrong the borg definitely win hands down. But, my main question is why they'd even go to war with the dominion. They don't seem to have any technology or lifeforms that interest them (that is, if they can't assimilate the founders)

It's mentioned by the female changeling in the search that the Dominion has hundreds of member races (solids) in the Gamma Quadrant, I don't think this means they have thousands of systems though. Otherwise it would probably be thousands of systems.

Davros_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 432

Report this Jun. 14 2009, 7:15 pm

Quote (Vortaborg @ June 13 2009, 7:46 pm)
But, my main question is why they'd even go to war with the dominion. They don't seem to have any technology or lifeforms that interest them (that is, if they can't assimilate the founders).

Depends on which Borg you're dealing with. TNG Borg were stated to "consume" technology and Locutus stated that the Borg "wished to raise quality of life for ALL species." However, Voyager-era Borg selectively discriminate against which species they assimilate, such as the Kazon who were deemed "unworthy."

AFAIK, the Borg have never turned down the chance to assimilate any given technology they come across. At the very least it can be broken down into raw materials.

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Jun. 15 2009, 12:30 am

Quote (Vortaborg @ June 14 2009, 9:46 pm)
Oh, yes actually. Don't get wrong the borg definitely win hands down.

Hmm.  Not so sure.

(Wow, this is really geeky, but...)

The sheer number of Dominion craft could possibly overwhelm the Borg.  And the Vorta and Jem'Hadar have no reservations about utilizing kamikaze tactics.

Also, remember the Federation and other Alpha and Beta quadrant powers had to upgrade their shields after the first encounter with the Dominion.  As the Vorta and Jem'Hadar could A) beam right through their shields and B) directly strike Starfleet vessels' hulls, ignoring the shields.

And what about the fact the Vorta and Jem'Hadar are simply genetic constructs, created by the Founders?  Couldn't the Founders find a way to make their DNA impossible to rewrite to Borg programming?  Or insert a "biological self-destruct" upon contact with Borg technology (i.e., assimilation)?

But again, the numbers are what make me scratch my head.  I mean, it's entirely possible the Dominion could take the Borg.

Remember, the Federation-Klingon-Romulan Alliance was getting its @$$ handed to it for a looong time.  And without the help of the Prophets (in destroying a MASSIVE fleet in the wormhole) and the Cardassians (for switching sides at the last moment)?  Well, the Dominion might just have conquered the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

(In fact, all of Starfleet's thinktanks, including Bashir's group, were fairly certain of that outcome.)

tribblenator999

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3818

Report this Jun. 15 2009, 1:15 am

well the dominion would be a better challenge for the borg than starfleet or the klingons/romulans. the dominion have more ships, have genetic engineered soldiers, and are willing to do whatever it takes to win. they also have giant battleships.  I mean when I watched DS9 towards the end I was surprised there was a empire that actually outmatched the federation and the klingons/romulans. I mean was it necessary for that kind of deliberate ownage on the feds parts. The borg were bad enough but another empire that could kick the federations a**.  The first encounter was by far the worse ownage of a federation vessel. Poor odyssey.

God_in_an_Alcove

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4538

Report this Jun. 15 2009, 1:30 am

Quote (Davros_ @ June 14 2009, 4:15 pm)
Quote (Vortaborg @ June 13 2009, 7:46 pm)
But, my main question is why they'd even go to war with the dominion. They don't seem to have any technology or lifeforms that interest them (that is, if they can't assimilate the founders).

Depends on which Borg you're dealing with. TNG Borg were stated to "consume" technology and Locutus stated that the Borg "wished to raise quality of life for ALL species." However, Voyager-era Borg selectively discriminate against which species they assimilate, such as the Kazon who were deemed "unworthy."

AFAIK, the Borg have never turned down the chance to assimilate any given technology they come across. At the very least it can be broken down into raw materials.

I believe the way it works is that if the Borg come across any warp-capable vessel, they will try to assimilate it and its crew, no questions asked. But if it's a world inhabited by a less-advanced culture (even if it's warp-capable), they'll leave them alone so that that culture can grow and advance, and possibly create technologies that would be of interest of the Borg. Then they'll assimilate them.

Vortaborg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 126

Report this Jun. 15 2009, 4:53 am

(Wow, this is really geeky, but...)

Quote
Also, remember the Federation and other Alpha and Beta quadrant powers had to upgrade their shields after the first encounter with the Dominion.  As the Vorta and Jem'Hadar could A) beam right through their shields and B) directly strike Starfleet vessels' hulls, ignoring the shields.


and why could they do this to Borg shields just as easily?

Quote
But again, the numbers are what make me scratch my head.  I mean, it's entirely possible the Dominion could take the Borg.


The Dominion can't even touch the Borg considering it doesn't have transwarp and can't get to the Delta Quadrant. The Borg on the other hand, have not only transwarp, but transwarp hubs in every quadrant. They could build as big a fleet as they needed from the safety of their own space. And invade.

Now, don't get confused. What I mean here is a Borg full fledged invasion of Dominion's main territory in the Gamma Quadrant, not that they show up in the middle of the dominion war and star attacking the dominion in Alpha Quadrant with their cardassian/breen allies.



Quote
Remember, the Federation-Klingon-Romulan Alliance was getting its @$$ handed to it for a looong time.  And without the help of the Prophets (in destroying a MASSIVE fleet in the wormhole) and the Cardassians (for switching sides at the last moment)?  Well, the Dominion might just have conquered the Alpha and Beta quadrants.


Why does everyone say the prophets destroyed the fleet? All we can say is it disppeared, but who knows where it went? They may have just transported it back to Dominion Space, but we do know they didn't allow any more dominion ships after that through. I think what they're doing is holding it in time, like what they did to that guy in accession who claimed to be the true emissary. That's all they've been shown to be able to do to ships in the wormhole.
-----------------

spacemonster

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2423

Report this Jun. 15 2009, 10:21 am

We don't know much about the Dominion in their own turf. Practically everything during the Federation-Dominion war took place in the Alpha. Nonetheless, the Dominion took a shattered world of Cardassia into a quadrant power house in a matter of just a year or two. That's quite a feat. We can only conjecture that in their own territory, the Dominion has vast resources on tap considering they've been a stronghold for centuries there. Besides, Janeway took on the Borg with one ship. I'd think some cloned samples of Weyouns can do better than that.

Vortaborg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 126

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 3:35 pm

Quote (spacemonster @ June 15 2009, 10:21 am)
We don't know much about the Dominion in their own turf. Practically everything during the Federation-Dominion war took place in the Alpha. Nonetheless, the Dominion took a shattered world of Cardassia into a quadrant power house in a matter of just a year or two. That's quite a feat. We can only conjecture that in their own territory, the Dominion has vast resources on tap considering they've been a stronghold for centuries there. Besides, Janeway took on the Borg with one ship. I'd think some cloned samples of Weyouns can do better than that.

Yet, we know thier tech in vastly inferior to that of the borg, considering what they have that we've seen, phased poloron beams, and the ability to detect cloaked ships are about all they can do.

So, the borg could just keep building ships and throwing them at them, like the ocean, do those waves ever stop?

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 7:46 pm

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that, though their natural form is the equivalent of goo, is still a physical form, and if the borg could figure out some method of injecting their nanoprobes into them they could still be assimilated in some manner.

There is also the fact that if they cannot be assimilated that the Borg would more then likely just destroy them from orbit, and then go on to assimilate the rest of the dominion.

Either way you look at it, the Dominion is Screwed.

kai_me_a_river

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 78

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 7:55 pm

Given my avatar choice, I'll have to say The Borg will win.

Lucifer_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12834

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 8:27 pm

Quote (Camorite @ June 18 2009, 7:46 pm)
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that, though their natural form is the equivalent of goo, is still a physical form, and if the borg could figure out some method of injecting their nanoprobes into them they could still be assimilated in some manner.

There is also the fact that if they cannot be assimilated that the Borg would more then likely just destroy them from orbit, and then go on to assimilate the rest of the dominion.

Either way you look at it, the Dominion is Screwed.

Even "goo" can contain individual cells, which is what the nano-probes attach themselves to. I don't have a screencap, but I do recall seeing an animated Okudagram where a nano-probe wraps its little mechanical appendages around a cell during the assimilation process, which means if it has cells, it has the potential to be assimilated.

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 9:02 pm

Quote (Lucifer_ @ June 18 2009, 8:27 pm)
Quote (Camorite @ June 18 2009, 7:46 pm)
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that, though their natural form is the equivalent of goo, is still a physical form, and if the borg could figure out some method of injecting their nanoprobes into them they could still be assimilated in some manner.

There is also the fact that if they cannot be assimilated that the Borg would more then likely just destroy them from orbit, and then go on to assimilate the rest of the dominion.

Either way you look at it, the Dominion is Screwed.

Even "goo" can contain individual cells, which is what the nano-probes attach themselves to. I don't have a screencap, but I do recall seeing an animated Okudagram where a nano-probe wraps its little mechanical appendages around a cell during the assimilation process, which means if it has cells, it has the potential to be assimilated.

Which is what i was trying to point out. The only question would be how the changling would be assimilated.

Lucifer_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12834

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 9:19 pm

The best way I can think of would be to beam the changling onto a Borg Cube where it could be contained in a forcefield, which the Borg are more than capable of creating. A group of Borg Cubes could potentially suck up the entire Great Link in this fashion.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum