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great military thinkers  in  Starfleet

Venicius

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POSTS: 1449

Report this Jun. 13 2009, 2:38 pm

very few, kirk to a limit, chang might be a second, then Kur. but there's no one who comes close to being a competent ground commander patton or rommel.

Dbear1

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POSTS: 1594

Report this Jun. 13 2009, 4:03 pm

Star Fleet really did not have what I would call great commanders, Kirk did a few nifty moves and Janeway used some descent deception techniques against the Kazon.  But none of them really showed much strategic or tactical flare.

They really did not even use maneuverability well; you never really see any even basic maneuvers like a pincer action or even flanking.  Considering space combat would be in a 3D environment, maneuvers should be the key to a successful engagement.  Instead they seemed to line up their forces and just slug it out.

About the best they seemed to do is use nebulas to hide in, or they would throw some techno babble out instead of basic tactics.

As for ground combat, after SF got rid of the MACOs they did not even have a good ground force (red shirts anyone), let alone commanders that showed much capability to use them.

It was pretty clear that whenever the writers put the shows into combat they really did not want to put much effort into it and would take the easy way out.  A descent military consultant would have helped a lot when SF went to war.  Maybe then they would not be so sucky at it LOL.

TheDriver

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POSTS: 1653

Report this Jun. 13 2009, 4:54 pm

Quote (Dbear1 @ June 13 2009, 7:03 pm)
Star Fleet really did not have what I would call great commanders, Kirk did a few nifty moves and Janeway used some descent deception techniques against the Kazon. But none of them really showed much strategic or tactical flare.

They really did not even use maneuverability well; you never really see any even basic maneuvers like a pincer action or even flanking. Considering space combat would be in a 3D environment, maneuvers should be the key to a successful engagement.

Spoken like a man who needs to watch "Sacrifice of Angels."

Venicius

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POSTS: 1449

Report this Jun. 14 2009, 12:00 am

Quote (TheDriver @ June 13 2009, 4:54 pm)
Quote (Dbear1 @ June 13 2009, 7:03 pm)
Star Fleet really did not have what I would call great commanders, Kirk did a few nifty moves and Janeway used some descent deception techniques against the Kazon. But none of them really showed much strategic or tactical flare.

They really did not even use maneuverability well; you never really see any even basic maneuvers like a pincer action or even flanking. Considering space combat would be in a 3D environment, maneuvers should be the key to a successful engagement.

Spoken like a man who needs to watch "Sacrifice of Angels."

Spoken like the steryoptypical trektard.

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1653

Report this Jun. 14 2009, 9:53 am

Ha. Didn't realize my comment would precipitate an insult...

Maybe I need to include a "smiley" emoticon after everything I type? :cool:

chr3335

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POSTS: 7914

Report this Jun. 20 2009, 12:11 am

Trek never really had many great military thinkers the closest would have to be kirk and sisko, but we never really see many tactics used by them as lets face it Star Fleet really isn't a military organization

Dbear1

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POSTS: 1594

Report this Jun. 20 2009, 8:24 am

Quote (chr3335 @ June 20 2009, 12:11 am)
Trek never really had many great military thinkers the closest would have to be kirk and sisko, but we never really see many tactics used by them as lets face it Star Fleet really isn't a military organization

While I agree we never really see great tactics in ST.  I do disagree with them not being a military organization.

The writers seemed to want to portray SF as not quite a military organization half the time I know.  But they never could get around the fact that SF was actually the military arm of the Federation.  If the Federation was threatened it was Star Fleet whose duty was to protect it.

Plus Star Fleet had a military organization and rank structure.  Some of their ships could level a planet and they were supposedly trained in tactics (just not very well it seems).

Yes they explored and searched for new life, but when the organic material hit the fan then their primary mission became to protect the Federation.

Even today in the US military, they have secondary mission outside a strictly military one.  The US Navy has likely done more exploration and research of the world¿s oceans than any other organization.  The Army has built roads and rebuilt infrastructure in numerous allied countries.  The Air Force has moved more medicine and food to disaster areas around the world than any other organization.  But their primary purpose is still the protection of the United States.

Star Fleet was a military organization; they had other duties outside the standard military ones.  But they still were the soldiers of the Federation.  They writers just sometime got a bit PC on us and forgot that, but they could not get around the fact that when conflict happened it was suppose to be SF on the front lines.

chr3335

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POSTS: 7914

Report this Jun. 20 2009, 10:13 am

I am sorry but Starfleet's main duty was an exploratory and diplomatic missions.  The defend the federation was the secondary mission.

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this Jun. 20 2009, 5:31 pm

Quote (chr3335 @ June 20 2009, 10:13 am)
I am sorry but Starfleet's main duty was an exploratory and diplomatic missions. ¿The defend the federation was the secondary mission.

Especially during Enterprise.

Jepoy2

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POSTS: 322

Report this Jun. 22 2009, 8:40 am

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ June 09 2009, 8:45 pm)
Quote (GHOSTREK @ June 10 2009, 10:29 am)
Quote (Mirrorgirl @ June 08 2009, 10:28 pm)
Garth of Izar ;)

who is that

He's from an episode from TOS called 'Whom Gods Destroy'
He was once the greatest Starship Captain and a brilliant military stragetist - his battles were required reading at the Academy, but he went criminally insane and decided he should rule the Universe...fun guy to be around, completely mad.

Whom Gods Destroy

You mean LORD GARTH!

Venicius

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POSTS: 1449

Report this Jun. 23 2009, 2:16 pm

Quote (chr3335 @ June 20 2009, 10:13 am)
I am sorry but Starfleet's main duty was an exploratory and diplomatic missions. ¿The defend the federation was the secondary mission.

so is the US coast guard, but they still are a military organization.

Aratech

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POSTS: 609

Report this Jun. 28 2009, 2:13 am

Quote (subytrek @ June 11 2009, 3:27 pm)
Riker wasn't too bad either.

Please tell me that was supposed to be a joke...

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