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Money?

lion_tone

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1140

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 3:35 pm

Quote (SLagonia @ June 18 2009, 12:29 pm)
Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 3:55 am)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 17 2009, 2:49 am)
The Federation is based on the idea of self-beterment. You are trusted to do what is right for humanity at all times, and have free use of government housing and replication technology to serve your needs.

LOL. I love the "we have technology, so all our problems go away" thing of later Trek. It's a farce, of course. Humans thrive on suffering. Always have always will...

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. ¿There's no reason to thrive on suffering if all your needs are taken care of. ¿How can you possibly thrive more physically than 100% fullfillment?

Much of humanity's great art, music, and literature, has been a result of suffering. When people's "needs" are taken care of, they become complacent.

Read history.

God_in_an_Alcove

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4538

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 3:38 pm

Quote (lion_tone @ June 18 2009, 12:35 pm)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 18 2009, 12:29 pm)
Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 3:55 am)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 17 2009, 2:49 am)
The Federation is based on the idea of self-beterment. You are trusted to do what is right for humanity at all times, and have free use of government housing and replication technology to serve your needs.

LOL. I love the "we have technology, so all our problems go away" thing of later Trek. It's a farce, of course. Humans thrive on suffering. Always have always will...

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. ?There's no reason to thrive on suffering if all your needs are taken care of. ?How can you possibly thrive more physically than 100% fullfillment?

Much of humanity's great art, music, and literature, has been a result of suffering. When people's "needs" are taken care of, they become complacent.

Read history.

Humans depicted in Trek's future have a greater appreciation for those very things.

SLagonia

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 18170

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 3:56 pm

Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 6:35 pm)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 18 2009, 12:29 pm)
Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 3:55 am)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 17 2009, 2:49 am)
The Federation is based on the idea of self-beterment. You are trusted to do what is right for humanity at all times, and have free use of government housing and replication technology to serve your needs.

LOL. I love the "we have technology, so all our problems go away" thing of later Trek. It's a farce, of course. Humans thrive on suffering. Always have always will...

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. ?There's no reason to thrive on suffering if all your needs are taken care of. ?How can you possibly thrive more physically than 100% fullfillment?

Much of humanity's great art, music, and literature, has been a result of suffering. When people's "needs" are taken care of, they become complacent.

Read history.

But the people in this are complacent...  I just said that.  Read my posts.

Complacency in this case doesn't lead to famine or housing shortages because of the technology and system in place.

Lucifer_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12834

Report this Jun. 18 2009, 5:25 pm

Quote (God_in_an_Alcove @ June 18 2009, 2:42 pm)
Quote (Lucifer_ @ June 17 2009, 11:52 pm)
While in TOS "Arena" Kirk referenced diamonds being valuable, I think in a TNG episode (can't remember ATM) the crew said they can be replicated.

This one doesn't really mean much. Even today, diamonds are valuable, but can be replicated. (Cubic zirconium. Though not technically diamonds, they're practically the same.)

We can mass produce perfect diamonds today as this article illustrates:

New Scientist

Quote
Diamonds are a girl's best friend, they say - and soon they could be every girl's best friend.

A team in the US has brought the world one step closer to cheap, mass-produced, perfect diamonds. The improvement also means there is no theoretical limit on the size of diamonds that can be grown in the lab.

A team led by Russell Hemley, of the Carnegie Institute of Washington, makes diamonds by chemical vapour deposition (CVD), where carbon atoms in a gas are deposited on a surface to produce diamond crystals.

The CVD process produces rapid diamond growth, but impurities from the gas are absorbed and the diamonds take on a brownish tint.

These defects can be purged by a costly high-pressure, high-temperature treatment called annealing. However, only relatively small diamonds can be produced this way: the largest so far being a 34-carat yellow diamond about 1 centimetre wide.

Microwaved Gems

Now Hemley and his team have got around the size limit by using microwaves to "cook" their diamonds in a hydrogen plasma at 2200 ?C but at low pressure. Diamond size is now limited only by the size of the microwave chamber used.

"The most exciting aspect of this new annealing process is the unlimited size of the crystals that can be treated. The breakthrough will allow us to push to kilocarat diamonds of high optical quality," says Hemley's Carnegie Institute colleague Ho-kwang Mao.

"The microwave unit is also significantly less expensive than a large high-pressure apparatus," adds Yufei Meng, who also participated in the experiments.

The new technique is so efficient that the synthetic diamonds contain fewer impurities than those found in nature, says Meng. "We once sent one of our lab-grown diamonds for jewellery identification, it wasn't told apart from natural ones," she says.

One immediate application will be to make ultra-high quality windows that are optically transparent to lasers.

Threat to Commerce

The team's method "could be routinely run in any laboratory where it is needed," says Alexandre Zaitsev, a physicist at the City University of New York, whose work also includes diamonds. "When considered in combination with the high-growth-rate technique of CVD diamonds, it seems to be a starting point of mass-scale production of perfect diamond material at a low price."

Zaitsev considers low-pressure annealing at temperatures greater than 2000 ?C to be a "breakthrough in diamond research and technology".

The improving quality of synthetic diamonds threatens the natural diamond market. While 20 tonnes of natural diamonds are mined annually, some 600 tonnes of synthetic diamonds are produced each year for industrial use alone.

They are used in a range of high-end technologies, such as lasers and high-pressure anvils. Some companies have also started to sell synthetic diamonds as gemstones. In response, diamond giant De Beers has set up a "Gem Defensive Programme" with the aim of finding ways to tell apart synthetic and natural diamonds.


It's about time the DeBeers cartel was taken down and the blood diamond business destroyed. They've been artificially inflating the prices and marketing the concept of the diamond engagement ring to sell their overpriced lumps of carbon to suckers who have to dish out a few weeks' wages to keep up with the Joneses. No doubt they'll try to exploit the "nature is better" BS as the "Gem Defensive Programme" clearly shows.

The women who demand a diamond ring are not interested in the diamond itself but rather in the fact that the guy had to spend X amount of dollars to buy it. They would probably be content with wearing a piece of dried up cow manure if they were certain you could only get ahold of one for thousands of dollars.

Vortaborg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 126

Report this Jun. 27 2009, 12:29 am

Quote (CaptStout09 @ June 06 2009, 9:17 pm)
Ferengi used Gold Pressed platnum wich is like money, but I think they also barter as well. Credits are cool. What I like the most about the Star Trek universe is that everyone worked, no exscuses. Like right now, credit can be used to harm you and keep a person from getting a job. If you are disabled and unable to work and by disabled, I mean unable to move at all...( no such thing in the Star Trek Universe, Steven Hawkings is a good example..) you could end up homeless and on the streets, and the way things are right now, my own family is facing that delemma. Here is a special plea, from someone who WANTS  to work... Employees please give EVERYONE  a chance, over look the bad credit and hire the qulified person to do the job, yes, but overlook the credit part, because without a job, there is no money to pay back credit... If everyone was working, no welfare or SSI would even be needed, there would be no poverty , and there would be no depression. There would be a job for everyone.In the 80's there were plenty of people working and all had a job to do.  There is  a job for everyone to do! Just be creative and hire someone to do A job. Even if it is someone to fill in the hour you go to lunch... The clients you miss because you take a hour break for lunch.... ( dont you hate going to a place that is closed for a hour because everyone is on a lunch break??? )  Then credit would be payed back and banks would be happy and more money would be spent on funstuff. This is why are economy is in the gutter. :eyesroll:

Actually, no. This is exactly what Carl Marx advocates in the Communist Manifesto "Equal Obligation of all to work" which sounds better than you must work for fear of punishment, but Russian currency, rubles were useless on the international market.

No matter if everyone works, there will always be a lower and upper class and middle classes. The only way to stop it is to make everyone's lifestyle the same, which severely limits your choices.

Vortaborg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 126

Report this Jun. 27 2009, 12:31 am

Quote (SLagonia @ June 18 2009, 3:56 pm)
Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 6:35 pm)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 18 2009, 12:29 pm)
Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 3:55 am)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 17 2009, 2:49 am)
The Federation is based on the idea of self-beterment. You are trusted to do what is right for humanity at all times, and have free use of government housing and replication technology to serve your needs.

LOL. I love the "we have technology, so all our problems go away" thing of later Trek. It's a farce, of course. Humans thrive on suffering. Always have always will...

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. ?There's no reason to thrive on suffering if all your needs are taken care of. ?How can you possibly thrive more physically than 100% fullfillment?

Much of humanity's great art, music, and literature, has been a result of suffering. When people's "needs" are taken care of, they become complacent.

Read history.

But the people in this are complacent...  I just said that.  Read my posts.

Complacency in this case doesn't lead to famine or housing shortages because of the technology and system in place.

No, everyone's need doesn't mean they'll be complacent. A hundred years ago people though everyone would be complacent if they could get food water and shelter for free, they were wrong. Any welfare bum in Canada can get those things.

SLagonia

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 18170

Report this Jun. 27 2009, 12:54 am

Quote (Vortaborg @ June 26 2009, 3:31 am)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 18 2009, 3:56 pm)
Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 6:35 pm)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 18 2009, 12:29 pm)
Quote (lion_tone @ June 17 2009, 3:55 am)
Quote (SLagonia @ June 17 2009, 2:49 am)
The Federation is based on the idea of self-beterment. You are trusted to do what is right for humanity at all times, and have free use of government housing and replication technology to serve your needs.

LOL. I love the "we have technology, so all our problems go away" thing of later Trek. It's a farce, of course. Humans thrive on suffering. Always have always will...

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. ?There's no reason to thrive on suffering if all your needs are taken care of. ?How can you possibly thrive more physically than 100% fullfillment?

Much of humanity's great art, music, and literature, has been a result of suffering. When people's "needs" are taken care of, they become complacent.

Read history.

But the people in this are complacent... ¿I just said that. ¿Read my posts.

Complacency in this case doesn't lead to famine or housing shortages because of the technology and system in place.

No, everyone's need doesn't mean they'll be complacent. A hundred years ago people though everyone would be complacent if they could get food water and shelter for free, they were wrong. Any welfare bum in Canada can get those things.

But there will always be something new to strive for - In this case, it's not matieriel, because all matieriel wealth comes essentially for free.  You still strive for standing, respect and excelence, and you still have the desire to get up, out and do something.  That never changes, even when your needs are taken care of.

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Jun. 28 2009, 12:36 am

Earth does not use currency and practices "a self enlightening" philosophy.

The Federation uses a credit system.  Earth is one of the five founding members of the UFP and presumably has veto power.  So, I think it can practice its no money policy in peace.  Besides, Earth has a lot to offer in the way of food and culture and tropical resorts.  I'm sure some people prefer Jamaica to Hawaii.  Just as others would prefer Earth to Risa.      

Plus, the prime directive does not allow the Federation and its members to interfere in the development of other cultures, internally and externally.  I'm sure there's an amendment to the UFP constitution that covers trade and commerce with the non currency based policy of Earth.

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