CaptainDewey GROUP: Members POSTS: 172  |
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Apr. 22 2009, 11:18 am
We all know that after DS9 the franchise took a nose dive but which is worse Enterprise or Voyager? My vote goes for the nasal qualities of Janeway and the sheer annoyance factor of Kim, the Doctor and Paris!
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Mantaray GROUP: Members POSTS: 2793 |
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Apr. 22 2009, 12:10 pm
I agree. What a drop off in quality. Literally a rudderless ship of writing. Voyager sucked so bad that I didn't give ENT a fair shot.
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MirrorRobotVicFontaine GROUP: Members POSTS: 1018 |
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Apr. 23 2009, 11:11 am
Enterprise, no contest at all. Enterprise had no characters, boring functional situations and plot, and worst of all, the dialogue just moved the lame plots forward and had no personality, soul, or intelligence in it. The makers had little or no interest in science-fiction, in other words that genre that explores the impact of new technology or scientific discoveries on human souls and minds. It conveyed no sense of wonder at the larger, difficult to fathom universe out there. It was just action/adventure set in space, and it even failed at that.
Voyager was a mixed bag. Some characters were great and very human and well developed, there were many good ideas, it had a good heart to it. It also fell down in the science-fiction department to a great extent, but at least it [/i]was[/i] science-fiction, dealing with the impact of new scientific advances on the lives of people, whereas Enterprise didn't even bother to try.
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Swahi24 GROUP: Members POSTS: 408 |
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Apr. 23 2009, 11:43 am
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Mantaray GROUP: Members POSTS: 2793 |
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Apr. 23 2009, 12:16 pm
| Quote (MirrorRobotVicFontaine @ April 23 2009, 11:11 am) | Enterprise, no contest at all. ¿ Enterprise had no characters, boring functional situations and plot, and worst of all, the dialogue just moved the lame plots forward and had no personality, soul, or intelligence in it. ¿The makers had little or no interest in science-fiction, in other words that genre that explores the impact of new technology or scientific discoveries on human souls and minds. ¿It conveyed no sense of wonder at the larger, difficult to fathom universe out there. ¿ It was just action/adventure set in space, and it even failed at that.
Voyager was a mixed bag. ¿ Some characters were great and very human and well developed, there were many good ideas, it had a good heart to it. ¿ It also fell down in the science-fiction department to a great extent, but at least it [/i]was[/i] science-fiction, dealing with the impact of new scientific advances on the lives of people, whereas Enterprise didn't even bother to try. |
Completely disagree. There were NO great characters on VOY, almost all were very one dimensional and the writing was all over the place trying to do something that just never worked. After season 4 they just gave up and made it the 7 of 9 show. The very little I saw of ENT at least the characters were portrayed a little more realistic and the dynamics were a huge steps above VOY. |
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MirrorRobotVicFontaine GROUP: Members POSTS: 1018 |
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Apr. 26 2009, 8:52 am
Voyager took a long time to get around to developing its characters, so you had to hang in there, which can be wearing. Some great things were eventually done with Janeway, Seven, Torres, and the Doctor. Harry took up space. Tuvok was just anal.
Enterprise was populated with interchangeable zombies. The effects people did good work.
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SLagonia GROUP: Members POSTS: 18170 |
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Apr. 26 2009, 2:38 pm
Enterprise made Voyager look like a good show.
I think it really comes down to this; Voyager was stupid, hacknied and full of holes, but at least it was a Star Trek series. I looked at it and said 'That's Star Trek.' It wasn't good Star Trek, but it was still Star Trek.
Enterprise... I'm not sure what the hell that was. It had the occasional good episode, and it certainly got better after Manny took over, but the show was just out in left field and completely distant from the rest of the shows.
It's been said that TNG and its successors are spin-offs of TOS, but I never saw it that way - They're not spin-offs, they're continuations. It's one long story that takes two generations to tell. Enterprise was a spin-off. That's all there is to it. It had some familiar themes, but it was a different show.
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Damien GROUP: Members POSTS: 1484 |
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Apr. 26 2009, 10:39 pm
Voyager gets my vote for worst but there is still a lot of good in VOY ... One has to be worst I suppose
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HairyGeekMan GROUP: Members POSTS: 203 |
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Apr. 26 2009, 10:43 pm
Voy was terrible overall, but it had far more gems than ENT. So, I'm going with ENT.
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WorfsGonads GROUP: Members POSTS: 1095 |
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Apr. 27 2009, 12:23 am
Normally I'm not an anal forum nitpicker....... But wouldn't be a better topic for genaeral ST talk. We Niners hate both series....lol
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MirrorRobotVicFontaine GROUP: Members POSTS: 1018 |
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Apr. 27 2009, 2:44 am
| Quote (SLagonia @ April 26 2009, 2:38 pm) | Enterprise made Voyager look like a good show.
I think it really comes down to this; Voyager was stupid, hacknied and full of holes, but at least it was a Star Trek series. ¿I looked at it and said 'That's Star Trek.' ¿It wasn't good Star Trek, but it was still Star Trek.
Enterprise... ¿I'm not sure what the hell that was. ¿It had the occasional good episode, and it certainly got better after Manny took over, but the show was just out in left field and completely distant from the rest of the shows. ¿
It's been said that TNG and its successors are spin-offs of TOS, but I never saw it that way - They're not spin-offs, they're continuations. ¿It's one long story that takes two generations to tell. ¿Enterprise was a spin-off. ¿That's all there is to it. ¿It had some familiar themes, but it was a different show. |
I think Next Gen was a continuation, then DS9 and Voyager were spin-offs of Next Gen. Enterprise was too disconnected from ST to be ST, true, but it was also a bad spin-off of the 24th century series (a spinoff of spinoffs), when it needed to connect with the original somehow. One of the biggest changes with Ent is that the characters were just a bunch of "regular guys", with no mission, no philosophy, no goal, no soul, and no real intelligence. Sure they pushed buttons and operated a warp engine, but I can't buy it. Suddenly "Star Trek" wasn't about smart people anymore. It wasn't about science-fiction ideas or the wonders of space either... everything about it said "Let's just kill some time in space". Enterprise just could not lead to the original Star Trek. There's no way those people and events could have led to that 23rd century. |
exodus201 GROUP: Members POSTS: 0 |
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Apr. 27 2009, 8:25 pm
ENT.
Voyager no more or less uneven than TNG was. Voy. like TNG was very good when it was good and very bad when it was bad. It's also a network & studio success in the fact that it lasted a full seven seasons, making Paramount money thru merchandising & syndication rights. ENT. failed to do any of this, therefore is a flop even by industry standards.
It was through "First Contact" and the launch of Voyager that gave Paramount their launching point for the Las Vegas Experance, taking Trek into a whole new relm.
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AbandonedChild GROUP: Members POSTS: 506 |
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Apr. 29 2009, 2:10 am
Although Voyager did have a lot of good episodes exploring various moral themes and other ideas, most of the characters didn't really grow that much out in the Delta Quadrant (the Doctor and 7 of 9 were the notable exceptions). Even worse, viewers weren't given a chance to enjoy the characters' reunions with their friends and family when they finally returned to Earth at the end of the series!
The writers spent a lot of time on special effects stories involving the Borg or time travel, which wasn't always a bad thing, but by the time season 7 started wrapping up I felt like a lot of opportunities had been lost.
Enterprise had a really good start, but it started slipping in season 2, and then took a massive nose dive in season 3 with the handling of the Xindi conflict. (I knew before the series had even begun that the show would jump the shark as soon as T'Pol went into Porn Farr, er, Pon Farr, and I was right; it took a letter campaign to keep ENT on the air.)
B&B basically left the show at that point, leaving season 4 in much more capable hands, but by then it was too late to save ENT from cancellation.
Ironically, if weren't for Voyager, B&B probably would have ruined DS9 simply because they would have had no other projects to be distracted by. DS9 is like the black sheep middle child of the Star Trek family, and was only allowed to be the well-written show it was because almost all the parents' attention was on its younger brother Voyager.
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Ndirsch11 GROUP: Members POSTS: 2268 |
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Apr. 29 2009, 2:26 am
Enterprise is the worst series, hands down! No contest. No debate. I mean, who are we kidding here? It was an unmitigated disaster from beginning to end. And when they showed signs of improvement in season four, it was too late. The damage had been done. And TATV seemed to confirm what most of us already knew: the series sucked! If they had just stayed true to the prequel premise and actually hired a competent writing staff right off the bat, it could have been a decent series.
Voyager is actually a very good series, a quality Star Trek show. I'm more convinced of that now than I ever was before. The problem with Voyager, though, is that it had a lot of bad habits and it (also) had a very bad ending. But there were several quality writers on the staff who held things together and contributed superb scripts (Michael Piller, Jeri Taylor, Michael Taylor, and Joe Menosky). Also, I liked the premise for Voyager and the focus on space exploration.
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Mantaray GROUP: Members POSTS: 2793 |
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Apr. 29 2009, 2:40 pm
| Quote (AbandonedChild @ April 29 2009, 2:10 am) | | Ironically, if weren't for Voyager, B&B probably would have ruined DS9 simply because they would have had no other projects to be distracted by. DS9 is like the black sheep middle child of the Star Trek family, and was only allowed to be the well-written show it was because almost all the parents' attention was on its younger brother Voyager. |
Very true. Praise Odin that B&B destroyed the other series. |
