ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Can a phaser beat a gun at a shooting test?

startrekpicard

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 50

Report this Mar. 19 2009, 2:46 am

I think a phaser will smoke a gun in a shootinh contest. What do you think?

AquamonkeyEG

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4915

Report this Mar. 19 2009, 12:18 pm

depends on the gun.

some sniper rifles are supersonic.
rail guns can go even faster.

designation1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 88

Report this Mar. 20 2009, 5:18 am

Quote (startrekpicard @ Mar. 19 2009, 1:46 am)
I think a phaser will smoke a gun in a shootinh contest. What do you think?
Well, I'm not sure. I mean, in what way? I guess we'd first have to establish the way in which modern guns might smoke phasers... After all, we could even break it down and draw comparisons - list pros and cons - in regards to varying modern gun designs alone (revolvers vs. clips, etc). So yeah, I'd think we would at least have to establish a basis of comparison.
Quote
AquamonkeyEG: depends on the gun. some sniper rifles are supersonic. rail guns can go even faster.
Agreed... I mean, there's several variations in design, not only in the gun itself, but in ammo and function as well.
Again, it really just depends upon whatever we're looking for or whatever we're talking about as far as a comparison between the two. For example, are talkin' about accuracy, lethality, versatility, everything in general, or what?

GrandLunar2007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1092

Report this Mar. 20 2009, 8:57 am

It really depends on the user.

A skilled shooter can get off a couple of rounds within a second. If the user of the phaser isn't as quick to react, then he/she loses.

As Designation1 says, what sort of terms are we talking about?

Josh_Lyman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5520

Report this Mar. 30 2009, 7:15 pm

Quote (startrekpicard @ Mar. 18 2009, 3:46 am)
I think a phaser will smoke a gun in a shootinh contest. What do you think?

Guns are real. Phasers are imaginary. I have to conclude that a gun could beat a phaser in a shooting test.

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Apr. 01 2009, 3:46 pm

A phaser would most definately be faster and more accurate then a conventional firearm. There are many reason's why:

1: A phaser is based off of amplified photons of a certain frequency, meaning they can be adjusted to create a desired effect:
      1. stun
      2. incapacitate for long period of time
      3. destroy cells ability to repair theirself thus causing
          severe tissue damage resulting in death
      4. heat - used to moleculary charge an objects atoms
          to increase their rate of movement but without  
          causing molecular destabilization. If this setting was
          used against organic cells however the result would
          be number 3.
      5. Complete molecular destabilization at the atomic level.
          This setting would effect each in-organic material in
          different ways depending on the setting used and the
          material effected upon by the phaser. If used against
          organic material the result would be an almost instant
          vaporizing effect starting at the impact point and
          working it's way through the cellular structure's of
          every moelcule until all consumable energy in the cells
          had been transferred into a release of sporadic energy
          release
      6. The range of each type of phaser would be different
          depending upon the type of focal iris used, the energy
          used and the amount of energy burst released at the
          impact point. A phaser can be adjusted to cover a
          wide area using more energy and causing less damage
          targets in the area of the beam. A narrow beam would
          use the same amount that the wide beam setting
          would but would create more damage at the point of
          impact as the energy would be more focused.
      7. The phaser operates at the speed of light as photonic
          energy release is the means by which the stored
          energy is released to the target.

A convention powder firearm is severly limited however:
      1. Each fiream has different calibers that create different
          types of velocities. Depending on the type of munition
          used will result in being able to hold more rounds over
          another caliber.
      2. There is no control over the damage of the fired
          round once it impacts the target. Since the round
          is metallic the laws of kinetic energy displacement
          says that the round will travel along a vector of least
          resitance once it has had its mass reduced per each
          impact  This creates uncertainity if the targer will
          survive being shot even if the shooters intent is only
          to disable. There have been many times that someone
          has been shot in the leg to disable them and the
          round has found its way to the targets vital organs
          resulting in death.
      3. A powdered firearm can not induce an in-organic's
          molecular structure to increae it's heat effectiveness.
      4. If you wanted various modes of velocity and range
          with a powdered firearm you have to carry many
          types of firearms to accomplish what the phaser is
          able to produce in one unit.
      5. The overall force of the powdered firearm is
          destructive to everything that it's mass and velocity
          can destroy the molecular structure at the atomic
          level.
      6. There are no settings for wide or narrow beam effects.
          This results in an over use of rounds that cannot be
           re-used.
      7. Powdered firearms are limited to their effectiveness
          by how many rounds the weapon can carry in the
          magazine and the tube as well as how many
          magazines the shooter is able to carry on their person.
          A phaser would be able to fire as many shots as there
          was energy in the capacity and would not be hindered
          or limited to bulky metal munition that weighs more
          then a capacitor for the phaser would.
      8. The powdered weapon is not self adjusting for wind
          whereas the phaser compensates for the wind variable
          making for a more accurate weapon.
 
     


These same criteria would be applied to the powdered rifle and phaser rifle as well.

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Apr. 01 2009, 3:48 pm

Phaser's are not fiction, they can be made. There are lasers on the market today that have the ability to burn a hole in the skin. All that is necessary for the phaser to produce more
energy at the focusing emitter is to use a crystal that would store the energy in the lattice of the crystaline structure and then release the energy to the target, but a simple phaser is available.

Venicius

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1449

Report this Apr. 01 2009, 5:55 pm

phasers according to the information you just quoted from is based around some dumb thing called rapid nadion effect, hardly the same thing as a laser. plus a gun wouldn't be affected by shield "frequency". plus remember those aliens that phasers do absolutley nothing to, plus dampening screen of the weak, and all that stuff.

Lucifer_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12834

Report this Apr. 01 2009, 6:27 pm

Quote (dryson @ April 01 2009, 3:46 pm)
A phaser would most definately be faster and more accurate then a conventional firearm.

A phaser has no cylindrical barrel, no raised protrusions which can be used as sighting devices, and no scope or sights for aiming. If you hold it up and try to sight along the axis, the end of the phaser is completely obscured by its bulky midsection. With no sighting devices of any kind, it would be exceedingly difficult to aim. The shape of the handgrip forces you to either hold your wrist in an uncomfortable position or hold it far too low to sight down its "barrel."

Quote
The phaser operates at the speed of light...


Wrong. In TNG "Conspiracy" Picard literally steps out of the way of a phaser beam fired at him. Other uses of the Phaser over the various series further prove that phasers are NOT lightspeed.

Venicius

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1449

Report this Apr. 01 2009, 6:39 pm

The last argument I had about phaser accuracy was joke, some trekie wanker was insisting that a dustbuster phaser would have some self aiming ability and was better it a full scale military engagment than a rifle equivalent. I doubt most board members have ever used real guns and have no concept of what factors affect accuracy.

I mean this one retard refused to consider, sight spacing, stability of rifle stock vs a pistol grip,  trigger pull or the quality of the gun's sighting mechanism. He insisted the only factor is the gun's ballistic wander.

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Apr. 02 2009, 12:53 pm

Quote (Venicius @ Mar. 31 2009, 7:39 pm)
The last argument I had about phaser accuracy was joke, some trekie wanker was insisting that a dustbuster phaser would have some self aiming ability and was better it a full scale military engagment than a rifle equivalent. I doubt most board members have ever used real guns and have no concept of what factors affect accuracy.

I mean this one retard refused to consider, sight spacing, stability of rifle stock vs a pistol grip, ¿trigger pull or the quality of the gun's sighting mechanism. He insisted the only factor is the gun's ballistic wander.

agree, most of sci fi weapons on tv are just lame. Look at stargate and there staff weapon, no aiming mechanism at all on top of it sheer clusminess.

Phaser are no better, especially since we see many time people dodging the beam!!!

Heck At that rate a cross bow would do a better job, or even a dodge ball.

You know what they say, "if you can dodge a dodge you can dodge a Phaser"!!!

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Apr. 02 2009, 1:13 pm

Quote (dryson @ Mar. 31 2009, 4:48 pm)
Phaser's are not fiction, they can be made. There are lasers on the market today that have the ability to burn a hole in the skin. All that is necessary for the phaser to produce more
energy at the focusing emitter is to use a crystal that would store the energy in the lattice of the crystaline structure and then release the energy to the target, but a simple phaser is available.

phaser are not real, they are based on an star trek particle called a nadion. There is no such particle.

They work totally different than laser, which basically excite electrons in material breaking down chemical and molecular bonds.

Nadion according to the TNG tech manual would break down nuclear bonds ( like fission) and shunt matter and energy to subspace.

The miltary are working on a host of direct energy weapons, the closest to a phaser is laser induce plasma, which create a bullet of plasma that can actually short out the nervous system of a human ( also work great against automobiles) but the unit is large and has to carried on a truck.

Now there is a weapon called a Phaser, which uses a laser to blind opponents, but it deployment has been put on whole due to the fact that it may violates provision of the Geneva Convention.

Direct energy weapon main advantage is their speed, since they operate near the speed of light ( particle beam weapons would be slower than C.)

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Apr. 04 2009, 9:58 am

Quote
Now there is a weapon called a Phaser, which uses a laser to blind opponents, but it deployment has been put on whole due to the fact that it may violates provision of the Geneva Convention.

Direct energy weapon main advantage is their speed, since they operate near the speed of light ( particle beam weapons would be slower than C.)


So first you say there is nothing called a phaser then you say there is something called a phaser, get your facts straight.

Phaser means PHASed Energy Rectification

The following definitions are taken directly from Webster's Online Dictionary.

PHASed: Alternating current is carried by conductors and a ground to residential, commercial, or industrial consumers. The waveform of the phase power appears as a single continuous sine wave at the system frequency whose amplitude is the rated voltage of the power.

Energy:(physics) the capacity of a physical system to do work; the units of energy are joules or ergs "energy can take a wide variety of forms"

Rectification:A. The process by which electric energy is transferred from an alternating-current circuit to a direct-current circuit b.

So what we are looking at here Lancer is the fact that Energy does not relate to one specific form or type of energy. A laser
could be used in the same way to produce the desired effect as that of a nadion phaser but with less sever effects at the target. Just read the correct definitions as stated by Websters.

LASER- Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation) optical device that produces an intense monochromatic beam of coherent light.

The rest of the definitions can be read here.

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/laser

So if a laser is put through different phases where the laser's wave lengths are widended or shortened to increase focused energy at one point then the laser has been put through a phase of change

This can be seen by taking a magnifying glass and directing and pointing it at a dry crisp leaf. What happens? The glass phases the UV radiation of the suns UV rays into a focused point thus causing a molecular destablization of the leafs molecular structure at the sub-atomic level. If the UV radiation
had not been phased with the magnifying glass then the molecular structure of the dry crisp leaf at the sub-atomic level would not have be destroyed thus starting the release of the energy stored as a potential within the sub-atomic structure as fire and smoke.

GrandLunar2007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1092

Report this Apr. 04 2009, 10:00 pm

Dryson,

A magnifying glass that burns a leave concentrates the heat of the sunlight, not the UV radiation.
And the effect does not occur at the subatomic level. The molecular bonds are altered, just as they would if exposed to flame.

It also appears you under estimate the effectiveness of kinetic energy weapons (which is basically what guns are). There are shotguns that are accurate to over 100 yards (the ones that use the stabilized slugs).
Rifles have longer accuracy.

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Apr. 04 2009, 11:01 pm

Quote
A magnifying glass that burns a leave concentrates the heat of the sunlight, not the UV radiation.
And the effect does not occur at the subatomic level. The molecular bonds are altered, just as they would if exposed to flame.

It also appears you under estimate the effectiveness of kinetic energy weapons (which is basically what guns are). There are shotguns that are accurate to over 100 yards (the ones that use the stabilized slugs).
Rifles have longer accuracy.


Heat

A form of energy that is transferred by a difference in temperature.

The sensation caused by heat energy

Heat is the energy that is stored in each molecule that when two molecules effect upon another create a friction that is released in the form of heat. Your hands right now are a certain temperature, rub them together and what happens, your hands get warmer, why because the molecules of oxygen with your hands are moving around at an increased speed. Take your hands and place them in a cold water basin, with a few seconds the temperatures of both hands will have decreased by several degrees, this is because the oxygen molecules have been slowed down in their interaction with one another thus reducing the amount of heat energy present.

The suns UV rays in a wavelength are what cause the leaf to begin to burn. The focused UV rays that have phased through the magnifying glass into a narrow wavelength are then focused on one area of the leaf where the action of the UV wavelengths excites the molecules within the leaf to release the stored energy. The reason why the leaf ingites is because
the remaining molecules of the leaf are the cells that once stored the energy of the leaf while it was green but is now empty, transfers the energy at the focal point on the leaf to the empty cells. Once the cells have had their molecular stability destroyed because of the absence of water, which acts as a protection against such UV protection, the cells release any stored energy which would most likely be tiny cells of oxygen.

I am quite aware of the potential of kinetic absed weapons but in comparison to a Phaser would be like throwing a rock at a freight train and expecting the train to stop.

Besides with a phaser you dont have to worry about bad gunpowder, mispacked shells and the accuracy of the round after it has left the barrel. With a phaser their is not such thing as drop where in order to get your round on target at 100 yards you have to adjust for wind and distance. With the phaser all you do is point and click, dont have to worry about not being able to fire in a 20 mph wind and your round impacting someplace where you dont want it too.

I could go on and on with the advantages. But it would be like comparing a slingshot to a single shot 17th century hand pistol.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum