ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

X-Rays Escape Blackhole at Half the Speed of Light

> id="QUOTE">I didnt say a bouncing field, I said a bounding field.

;)

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Feb. 04 2009, 11:32 am

X-Rays Escape Black Hole

Now according to conjecture and myth matter cannot escape from a black hole. Recent NASA probes has determined otherwise. Also it is very plain to see that the Universe is infinite given that the plume of the X-ray towers a whopping 13,000 light years in length. Apply that to the size of the blackhole against the universe and it is plain to see that not only is the universe infinite but they will be lifeforms out there in the vast ocean we call space.

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Feb. 04 2009, 11:42 am

Now how would it be possible to recreate this energetic event so that the expelled X-rays could provide thrust propelling a vehicle forward?

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Feb. 04 2009, 2:26 pm

Quote (dryson @ Feb. 03 2009, 12:42 pm)
Now how would it be possible to recreate this energetic event so that the expelled X-rays could provide thrust propelling a vehicle forward?

cause it doesn't!  The Xrays are generated by the gas piling up around the event horizon. This is caused due to the fact that more gas is draw toward the blackhole than it can consume because the rate of matter a blackhole consumes is limited by it area of the event horizon.

The gas becomes super heated due to ram effect of more gas piling on pushing against the gas that already there. The heated Gas then emits Xrays. Some of the Gas becomes so heated that it literally is blasted away from the Event horizon.

Another effect is the fact that any magnetize matter will also have it magnetic field decouple as the matter hits the horizon. This decouple magnetic field will fly away from the Blackhole at the speed of light and it will deposite its energy into any matter in it path.This generally cause a beam of hi energy particles that beam out to the universe.

see

Accretion disc

In either case, nothing is consider mythical since the unescapable region of a blackhole only take into account objects or energy that actually crosses the Event Horizon.
( well maybe not, check out book "Blackhole Wars" dealing with the 20 year war on Black hole information Paradox.)

Blackholes are the perfect engine, cause we could use them to liberate around 80 % of the energy of matter that fall into them ( there are various schemes to do this!;) only matter to antimatter annihilation is more efficent..

Problem is that Blackhole are massive, if you are going to take them with you, you will also need to propel them. Only Blackhole of planetary mass and greater are fairly stable ( mini blackholes of this size and smaller would have been created at the big bang and would be evaporating around now) while small ones  ( say with the mass of a mountain ) would be extremely hot ( due to hawking radiation) and would evaporize in millisecond release energy in the range of gigaton worth of tnt..

Xray can propel space craft, but the it take around a million joule to generate a single newton of force so it more effective to use the energy to create a plasma which would give you a higher thrust.

Admiral_JTK

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4833

Report this Feb. 04 2009, 2:58 pm

Lanceromega for the win

GrandLunar2007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1092

Report this Feb. 05 2009, 7:07 am

Quote (dryson @ Feb. 04 2009, 11:32 am)
X-Rays Escape Black Hole

Now according to conjecture and myth matter cannot escape from a black hole. Recent NASA probes has determined otherwise. Also it is very plain to see that the Universe is infinite given that the plume of the X-ray towers a whopping 13,000 light years in length. Apply that to the size of the blackhole against the universe and it is plain to see that not only is the universe infinite but they will be lifeforms out there in the vast ocean we call space.

Recreating such a thing would take extreme physics, given what's involved with a BH.
There are simpler, better understood means to achieve propulsion right now than duplicating a relativistic jet.

It is not myth, Dryson. It is physics.

The X-rays that emit from the matter accelerating into the BH are sent before the matter enters the event horizon. Before that point, matter and energy still can escape.

The "towers" are known as relativistic jets.
Here's an anology; a BH is like a sink drain; matter doesn't fall in all at once, but spirals in. What happens is that the matter piles up. The jets produced are emitted along the BH's magnetic poles.

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Feb. 08 2009, 2:26 pm

I wasnt talking about taking a blackhole with me I was talking about recreating the process of the x-rays being ejected back out from the black at half the speed of light. If the matter is drawn into the black hole and the x-rays are jettisoned back out due to some force being placed against the X-rays then that can be deemed as a reactionary force against which a ship can be propelled forward. Some sort of field must be present that when the matter is pulled into the center the field acts like a boundry thus repels the x-rays.

Think of it like this, You have a red rubber recess ball you through it a brick building (Lancer's Head) what happens? The ball is forced back in your general direction while some of the energy is absorded by the wall.

The energy used (me throwing the ball) is contained within the rubber ball and is based on varrying mediums, the strength at which it was thrown, the muscle energy transferred to the ball along with any force placed back upon it, the air that it must travel though ect.  (or the matter being pulled into the black hole) that energy then hits the
brickwall dispursing the energy outwards,inwards and upwards, the upwards energy is the ball being returned to me. The ball would not return to it's exact point of origin because of the vector at which it was thrown and the point of impact at which it struct the building.

So if a way could be found to create a "brick building" or a repellsionary field on the inside of an engine housing where another energetic form is accelerated towards it at light speed along with the bounding field attracting the energy where the bounding field would repel the light speed energy that is being projected against it in the opposite direction and in an enclosed cone shaped device then a thrust potention has been gained, thus propelling the vessel forward maybe at 1/4 LS (Light Speed) or maybe even 1/2 LS.

Now Lancer is there any thing that you may know about a system that projects energy at light speed that when it encounters a bounding field that the energy is repelled backwards?

I do the atmosphere of Earth along with gravity, repells a majority of the Suns UV radiation, if it didn't then Earth would be cooked in under an hours time. The energy that is not absorbed by the atmosphere or penetrates the atmospere then glides around the earth. If this energy that is traveling at the speed of light is trapped in a cone then the force of the speed of light enacting against the "brickwall" would build up. Energy is like water it always follows the path of least resitance, this would cause the UV energy travelling at the speed of light to be ejected back out the end of the engine cone, thus propelling the ship forward.

GrandLunar2007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1092

Report this Feb. 08 2009, 11:10 pm

Dryson, remember that the X-rays are emitted by matter itself that has been heated by the BH.

Using x-rays, or any similar form of energy, is similar to a nuclear photonic rocket.
It's not very efficent; it takes a lot of power to generate a small amount of thrust in such concepts.

What you really want isn't to recreate the emission of x-rays, but the speed of the ejected matter.
Having matter accelerated to such speeds is far more efficent means of propulsion.

There are articles online that explain the action of a BH emitting x-rays and relativistic jets.
I suggest a read on them.
If you have a library nearby, see if they have Dr. Neil Tyson's book "Death by Black Hole". It's a good read for a look into what BHs are about, including the jets.

draeden06

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1217

Report this Feb. 10 2009, 12:35 pm

Question: Why are the x-rays going so slow? Don't all forms of EM waves travel at the speed of light? Is it the denisty of material around the BH, or is the gravity of the BH slowing down, or is it something else?

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Feb. 10 2009, 2:19 pm

Quote (draeden06 @ Feb. 09 2009, 1:35 pm)
Question: Why are the x-rays going so slow? Don't all forms of EM waves travel at the speed of light? Is it the denisty of material around the BH, or is the gravity of the BH slowing down, or is it something else?

x  rays are traveling at the speed of light it the plasma that traveling at 50% of C.

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Feb. 18 2009, 11:36 am

Quote (dryson @ Feb. 07 2009, 3:26 pm)
I wasnt talking about taking a blackhole with me I was talking about recreating the process of the x-rays being ejected back out from the black at half the speed of light. If the matter is drawn into the black hole and the x-rays are jettisoned back out due to some force being placed against the X-rays then that can be deemed as a reactionary force against which a ship can be propelled forward. Some sort of field must be present that when the matter is pulled into the center the field acts like a boundry thus repels the x-rays.

Think of it like this, You have a red rubber recess ball you through it a brick building (Lancer's Head) what happens? The ball is forced back in your general direction while some of the energy is absorded by the wall.

The energy used (me throwing the ball) is contained within the rubber ball and is based on varrying mediums, the strength at which it was thrown, the muscle energy transferred to the ball along with any force placed back upon it, the air that it must travel though ect. ¿(or the matter being pulled into the black hole) that energy then hits the
brickwall dispursing the energy outwards,inwards and upwards, the upwards energy is the ball being returned to me. The ball would not return to it's exact point of origin because of the vector at which it was thrown and the point of impact at which it struct the building.

So if a way could be found to create a "brick building" or a repellsionary field on the inside of an engine housing where another energetic form is accelerated towards it at light speed along with the bounding field attracting the energy where the bounding field would repel the light speed energy that is being projected against it in the opposite direction and in an enclosed cone shaped device then a thrust potention has been gained, thus propelling the vessel forward maybe at 1/4 LS (Light Speed) or maybe even 1/2 LS.

Now Lancer is there any thing that you may know about a system that projects energy at light speed that when it encounters a bounding field that the energy is repelled backwards?

I do the atmosphere of Earth along with gravity, repells a majority of the Suns UV radiation, if it didn't then Earth would be cooked in under an hours time. The energy that is not absorbed by the atmosphere or penetrates the atmospere then glides around the earth. If this energy that is traveling at the speed of light is trapped in a cone then the force of the speed of light enacting against the "brickwall" would build up. Energy is like water it always follows the path of least resitance, this would cause the UV energy travelling at the speed of light to be ejected back out the end of the engine cone, thus propelling the ship forward.

bouncing field means nothing, relativity insure that no matter what you do to light, in a vacuum the speed of light remains C...

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Feb. 22 2009, 3:40 pm

I didnt say a bouncing field, I said a bounding field.

Quote
bouncing field means nothing, relativity insure that no matter what you do to light, in a vacuum the speed of light remains C...


Then if this notion were true and that light was not able to escape the immense gravity pull of the black hole then the x-rays theirself would not be able to create the 13,000 ly high plume, thus meaning that xrays are traveling faster then the speed of light. There has to be a force of reaction going on in the center of the blackhole that is either unseen or further down the wormhole created by the blackhole that sends matter across the universe in a matter of seconds being sent back through the center of the blackhole to create the 13,000 ly high plume. Or the 13,000 ly high plume is the result of the blackhole in question being at the end of the blackhole  funnel connecting to another blackhole where the matter has been drawn into the first blackhole and after being shot through the Universe it would have accumlated fast then light speed thus being undetectable by any means of instrumental device's today. As the the matter traveled down the tunnel it would have broken free of the first blackhole's gravitional field. This immense pull on the matter once it was released would have unleashed the matter thus allowing the matter to attain faster then light velocities. Once it reached the exiting blackhole the gravitional pull of the second blackhole would have have pulled the exiting x-rays back towards the blackhole. But due to the velocity of the matter it would still have been able to escape the second blackholes pull, but since the second blackhole was effecting a pull against the the matter the escape velocity would have been reduced to half the speed of light. And according to relativity this notion is correct based on two energetic bodies effecting one another within the same spacial medium.

" To absent friends....family. May they ride the wings of light of the Universe."

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Feb. 23 2009, 1:26 pm

border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (dryson @ Feb. 21 2009, 4:40 pm)

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Feb. 25 2009, 11:42 pm

Well apparently, Lancer from what the Nasa pictures show and what you are saying are two totally different things.

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Feb. 25 2009, 11:46 pm

Quote
Jets and lobes powered by the central black hole in this nearby galaxy .....


The captian reads and I quote "by the central black hole..."

Central meaning the center not the edge not 1000 ly's off of the edge but central.

The x-rays wouldnt becoming from the edge like you state anyway, there isnt enough gravitational force present on the edge like there is at the CENTRAL part of the blackhole.

[QUOTE] [The x-rays are] not  escaping the blackhole but [from] the area outside of it. apparently you are ignoring everything every one has posted.

And yes, To bring about new theories on how the world works around us, not based on how we "WISH IT" worked but rather how it works in a randomly precise fashion,constantly changing every planck second of the day, then one must ignore the illogical conudrum of the past.

GrandLunar2007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1092

Report this Feb. 26 2009, 10:53 am

Dryson,

By central black hole, it means the black hole at the center of that galaxy, not the black hole's center itself.

The energy is emitted before the matter passes the event horizon. It is past the event horizon that energy, or light, cannot escape from.

There are articles online that talk about details like this. There are also books that explain.
If there is a library near you, I encourage you to look for one called "Death by Black Hole", by Dr. Neil Tyson.
That can give you more info about the phenomenon of relativistic jets.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum