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Why use directed energy weapons

lanceromega

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Report this May. 28 2008, 2:22 pm

Quote (Vold @ May 26 2008, 9:14 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ May 27 2008, 1:52 pm)
Quote (Vold @ May 23 2008, 7:45 pm)
The math counts only if the Cube is made by cheap and plain metal/stuff. Like how a bridge gets destroyed by mere wind because the entire thing is vulnerable to the same vibe. But there are ways to counter it.

The shockwave of the impact won't be any worst than a Photon Explosion shockwave inside a vessel. If a Sphere can survive that, its no biggie for a Cube. It'll just shake the ship, tripping a few Drones near the impact area, nothing much else.

And the Borg are slow movers when speed is not required, its hard to imagine them bracing themselves.
I'm sure they got very or something, which they probably have a method to absorb such energies.

Math doesn't count?....Lol but it does, the impact would contains the energy on not one photon torpedoes but over 700's of them...

We saw that Borg cube could not survive the impact of coronal mass ejections equal to 4 gigaton, how is it going to survive an impact of 50 Gigatons!!!

So we have at least an upper limits as show in "Descent". We also have a computed value of what a Collision from a impact with a Dominion Fighter craft which is over 10X that value, logic and simple common sense show that the Cube is toast...

What Coronal mass ejection?

The ship in "Descent" was destroyed by a Solar Flare or something that engulfed the entire ship, not by a small ship.

There are no examples to show that Borg Vessels that size are vulnerable to small impacts at impulse.

But there are evidence that such impacts cause small (to the Borg's point of view) damage & only effective (Destroying not Disabling) if hit at the right spot, where can cause a chain reaction like the Warp Core.

solar flare is another term for Coronal mass ejection....

Size does not necessary mean that it more energic or even contain more momentum.

As a ship move as relativitic velocity it gains mass and momentum, a solar flare basically is propel at escape velocity for the star, and is no where near relativitic....

Large object can cause less damage if they traveling at fairly low speed compare to smaller object at extreme velocities...It simple physics...

That why math counts it show us this, and we test this compare to prediction formula make.

Vold

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Report this May. 28 2008, 5:49 pm

They can do damage but not destroy it. Depends on where & what they hit.
I never said because its bigger, it can destroy when move slower.
I said it'll do more damage than the small one at the same speed.

More also means larger impact space, more chances of hitting something relevant.

Put any smaller ship in the Ent-E's shoes & the results will be smaller.


A small piece of meteor surviving the atmosphere hitting a house at top speed, would still only cause a hole of its size, it won't cause the whole house to blow up, get a bigger stone & the damage increase, get it big enough & it'll cause a nuclear winter like effect on the planet.

These collisions acts as armor piercing, not explosives. Especially since the ship is not set to blow on impact.
shockwaves will only rock the boat, stuff near the impact will suffer the most damage.

lanceromega

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Report this May. 29 2008, 3:57 pm

Quote (Vold @ May 27 2008, 6:49 pm)
They can do damage but not destroy it. Depends on where & what they hit.
I never said because its bigger, it can destroy when move slower.
I said it'll do more damage than the small one at the same speed.

More also means larger impact space, more chances of hitting something relevant.

Put any smaller ship in the Ent-E's shoes & the results will be smaller.


A small piece of meteor surviving the atmosphere hitting a house at top speed, would still only cause a hole of its size, it won't cause the whole house to blow up, get a bigger stone & the damage increase, get it big enough & it'll cause a nuclear winter like effect on the planet.

These collisions acts as armor piercing, not explosives. Especially since the ship is not set to blow on impact.
shockwaves will only rock the boat, stuff near the impact will suffer the most damage.

it a matter of energy transfer, collision are transfer energy to the target just like a explosion, while explosion will send a potion of their energy away from the target, depending on the shape and area of collision more energy is generally transfer in this manner.

The borg cube is the worse shape to absorp and impact, max surface area and vol, the crash is almost certain transfer the max amount of it energy to the cube.

The fighter will be vaporize and the energy of the collision will be transfer to the volume of the cube, and due to the cube size their is going to be no blow thru..

Somehow the cube will have to absorp the energy of 700 photon torpedoe not just to the surface of the cube but all the area of the cube the shockwave travel to..

A small meteor create a hole many times it diameter, the size of the whole depends on the kinetic energy of the meteor. The higher the kinetic energy, the more matter that vaporize on impact the more matter that is vaporize the bigger the crater.

A meteor with hi enought energy will level a house, just look at the meteor that struck in sibera in 1908, it impact the earth with the force of 5 megaton to 30 megatons and level an area of over 830 square miles.

To level a house, all that is require is a stony meteoroid of about 10 metres (30 ft) in diameter that can produce an explosion of around 20 kilotons, similar to that of the Fat Man bomb dropped on Nagasaki.Not just the house but several miles around the house is level.

Generally most meteor explode hi in the atomsphere, even month air force sensor register explosion equal to tactical nuke occuring hi in the atomsphere from meteor no bigger that a few meter in diameter, luckly they are too small to make it to the surface.. Generally most meteor fragment that are found are actually parts of meteor that exploded in the atomsphere where the friction of the air has slow them down.

Energy is energy is has to go somewhere, in this case it into the cube, the damage doesnot remain localize it will spread in the form of a shockwave.. The cube dies or fall apart it has no choice unless the some part of the cube can absorb all that energy..

Vold

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Report this May. 29 2008, 7:21 pm

Like I said, the bigger it is, the more damage it'll cause.
But, did it dug a hole on the ground?
It only destroy things around the impact area, "Weak" things.
Nothing man made or nature in those events are ever designed to withhold such damage. That's why the damage seems enormous.

We're talking about Starships build to stand in a fight.
It withstood anti-matter explosions, externally, a Cube withstood hundreds of Photons & Quantums in ST:FC
In Voy, a Probe & Sphere is known to be able to survive but dissabled momentarily by a Photon inside their hull.

Something that no Starfleet vessel could do. Clearly Borg vessels are made of more sterner stuff.

A Jem'Hadar attackship would be like the small meteor making small holes on people's roof top.
Anything bigger like a Battlecruiser (Dom's next bigger ship) or a Defiant smaller than the Batt but bigger than the Attack ship, those will pose more damage.

AttackShip 90m - A hole
Defiant 120m - Bigger hole & more damage
Dom BattleCruiser, Galaxy Class & above - destroyed/Significantly damaged

The reason the Defiant would cause more damage, is because its design will explode on impact due to a Core Breach, unlike the AttackShip which is design to pierce. Had it not design to pierce only, I would say it would cause more damage then usual. Since it is not, its just a piece of technology stuck in their hull ready for assimilation.

Those are all on Impulse, at Warp, anything will destroy the Cube. As shown a small ship like 8472's crash into a Cube both at warp.

Which comes to mind, the Borg surely have a stronger stress tolerance.
What's the reason starships don't turn fast during warp?
Fear of the stress tearing the ship apart.
The Borg clearly don't have that problem, as we saw a Cube spinning while at warp, firing torpedoes from every arc at the Bioship.

lanceromega

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Report this Jun. 02 2008, 4:40 pm

Quote (Vold @ May 28 2008, 8:21 pm)
Like I said, the bigger it is, the more damage it'll cause.
But, did it dug a hole on the ground?
It only destroy things around the impact area, "Weak" things.
Nothing man made or nature in those events are ever designed to withhold such damage. That's why the damage seems enormous.

We're talking about Starships build to stand in a fight.
It withstood anti-matter explosions, externally, a Cube withstood hundreds of Photons & Quantums in ST:FC
In Voy, a Probe & Sphere is known to be able to survive but dissabled momentarily by a Photon inside their hull.

Something that no Starfleet vessel could do. Clearly Borg vessels are made of more sterner stuff.

A Jem'Hadar attackship would be like the small meteor making small holes on people's roof top.
Anything bigger like a Battlecruiser (Dom's next bigger ship) or a Defiant smaller than the Batt but bigger than the Attack ship, those will pose more damage.

AttackShip 90m - A hole
Defiant 120m - Bigger hole & more damage
Dom BattleCruiser, Galaxy Class & above - destroyed/Significantly damaged

The reason the Defiant would cause more damage, is because its design will explode on impact due to a Core Breach, unlike the AttackShip which is design to pierce. Had it not design to pierce only, I would say it would cause more damage then usual. Since it is not, its just a piece of technology stuck in their hull ready for assimilation.

Those are all on Impulse, at Warp, anything will destroy the Cube. As shown a small ship like 8472's crash into a Cube both at warp.

Which comes to mind, the Borg surely have a stronger stress tolerance.
What's the reason starships don't turn fast during warp?
Fear of the stress tearing the ship apart.
The Borg clearly don't have that problem, as we saw a Cube spinning while at warp, firing torpedoes from every arc at the Bioship.

1. No in the case the impact area is the size of the meteor, the damage as in the case of the 1908 sibera strike extended over a radius of 10 to 20 miles..

The hole is only the part of the damage the meteor does, it also creates a shock wave, it also eject molten earth and metal into the atomspheres, it effect is identical to a surface nuclear blast, minus the radiation..

2. the fact is core beach happen anyway as the craft that crashes no longer can maintain core integrity. the antimatter will come in contact with the matter and it adds to the damage..

3. yes but the starship donot survive impact, we see this time after time after time..

4. doesnot matter how much sterner stuff the borg cube is made of, we see it limits is around 4 gigatons, the damage done in my example is over 10 time that.

5. Starship have intergery fields that maintain their structure, we saw in "Cause and Effect" that with multisystem failure how that field fails and how the warp core just blews. The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10..

Vold

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Report this Jun. 02 2008, 9:25 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ June 02 2008, 4:40 pm)
5. Starship have intergery fields that maintain their structure, we saw in "Cause and Effect" that with multisystem failure how that field fails and how the warp core just blews. The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10..

We did?
When?

I only recall 2 badly damaged Cubes.
"Unity" & "Collective"

the latter is the most damaged ship, & its still in top shape just undermanned. And it took Voyager a lot more doing before the Cube starts shaking. Through a long period of feedback through the tractor beam.

And there's no saying the Cube didn't stop shaking when they stop the feedback, after all they still got time to gather the kids info, so I assume they stop & scavenge what's left of the Cube.
In other words, still intact.

Borg don't use standard warp cores. Whatever they're using, don't have the risk of a chain reaction if something fails. Its not holding 2 volatile substance apart from each other.

lanceromega

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Report this Jun. 03 2008, 1:41 pm

Quote (Vold @ June 01 2008, 10:25 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ June 02 2008, 4:40 pm)
5. Starship have intergery fields that maintain their structure, we saw in "Cause and Effect" that with multisystem failure how that field fails and how the warp core just blews. The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10..

We did?
When?

I only recall 2 badly damaged Cubes.
"Unity" & "Collective"

the latter is the most damaged ship, & its still in top shape just undermanned. And it took Voyager a lot more doing before the Cube starts shaking. Through a long period of feedback through the tractor beam.

And there's no saying the Cube didn't stop shaking when they stop the feedback, after all they still got time to gather the kids info, so I assume they stop & scavenge what's left of the Cube.
In other words, still intact.

Borg don't use standard warp cores. Whatever they're using, don't have the risk of a chain reaction if something fails. Its not holding 2 volatile substance apart from each other.

Has nothing to do with warp core.

Basically the collision transfer kinetic energy from the fighter to a cube.

The fighter strike the cube and all the energy of motion is transfer from the fighter to the cube, the fighter contains 50 gigaton of energy just by it motion.

The cube material absorp this energy, the potion at the impact is vaporized instantly, rest of the energy of the collision then travel outward from point of impact at the speed of sound. Depending on how tought the cube is either more of the cube is vaporize or a shock wave is created that damages the cube via mechanical means.

In Descent we saw the limit of the cube plus any shields. the Flare basically transfer 4 gigatons of energy to the cube, it failed.. The fighter would transfer 50 gigatons..

Vold

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Report this Jun. 03 2008, 7:48 pm

I'm asking about ur example of "The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10."

Where's that example?

lanceromega

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Report this Jun. 04 2008, 11:50 am

Quote (Vold @ June 02 2008, 8:48 pm)
I'm asking about ur example of "The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10."

Where's that example?

"Descent"! remember the impact with the solar flare!!!

Vold

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Report this Jun. 04 2008, 9:43 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ June 04 2008, 11:50 am)
Quote (Vold @ June 02 2008, 8:48 pm)
I'm asking about ur example of "The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10."

Where's that example?

"Descent"! remember the impact with the solar flare!!!

That's not due to a systems failure
That's an attack.

lanceromega

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Report this Jun. 05 2008, 4:41 pm

Quote (Vold @ June 03 2008, 10:43 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ June 04 2008, 11:50 am)
Quote (Vold @ June 02 2008, 8:48 pm)
I'm asking about ur example of "The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10."

Where's that example?

"Descent"! remember the impact with the solar flare!!!

That's not due to a systems failure
That's an attack.

the attack cause system failures, shield fail, armor fails, intergarty field fails.. Ship dies...

Vold

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Report this Jun. 06 2008, 2:18 am

Quote (lanceromega @ June 05 2008, 4:41 pm)
Quote (Vold @ June 03 2008, 10:43 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ June 04 2008, 11:50 am)
Quote (Vold @ June 02 2008, 8:48 pm)
I'm asking about ur example of "The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10."

Where's that example?

"Descent"! remember the impact with the solar flare!!!

That's not due to a systems failure
That's an attack.

the attack cause system failures, shield fail, armor fails, intergarty field fails.. Ship dies...

The Borg vessel wasn't even damaged by the Enterprise-D
so what systems failure is there???

The only real damage done to it is by the solar flare alone.
That destroyed the ship, not because of systems failure.

lanceromega

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Report this Jun. 06 2008, 2:52 pm

Quote (Vold @ June 05 2008, 3:18 am)
Quote (lanceromega @ June 05 2008, 4:41 pm)
Quote (Vold @ June 03 2008, 10:43 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ June 04 2008, 11:50 am)
Quote (Vold @ June 02 2008, 8:48 pm)
I'm asking about ur example of "The Borg cube may do things differently but we see how they also fail when stress to the max, in this case it the max time 10."

Where's that example?

"Descent"! remember the impact with the solar flare!!!

That's not due to a systems failure
That's an attack.

the attack cause system failures, shield fail, armor fails, intergarty field fails.. Ship dies...

The Borg vessel wasn't even damaged by the Enterprise-D
so what systems failure is there???

The only real damage done to it is by the solar flare alone.
That destroyed the ship, not because of systems failure.

never said the enterprise destroyed the Borg ship, it did trick it and it did intiate the flare.

And how does a Solar flare destroy a ship!!!! the Ship's system fail due to impact with flare!!!! The flair impart more energy than the Borg ship ,armor and hull can handle.

blankenship

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Report this Jun. 10 2008, 6:20 pm

The number one reason to use directed energy weapons is: Because there just so freekin' cool!

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