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Perpetual Accused of Fraud over STO

Kareal

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 499

Report this Dec. 18 2007, 9:10 pm

Quote (Captain_Samurai @ Dec. 18 2007, 1:23 pm)
That's what everybody thought when SWG came out too, but we can all see how well that all turned out. From what we've seen, if STO comes out at all, its just going to be another run of the mill WoW copy with a sci fi skin on it. Sure people will buy and play it simply because its Star Trek, but my love of the franchise does not extend to masochism. That's why I left SWG in the first place.

The interesting thing about SWG was the fact that they took a great MMO and utterly destroyed it.  Its one of those weird things where a mMO got WORSE as time went on with patches and "dev" tinkering

MigueIitoSan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1018

Report this Dec. 18 2007, 10:40 pm

You know, the screenshot looked a little like SWG too. The beams were just longer coming from the gun.

CommanderSTRONG

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1324

Report this Dec. 19 2007, 5:10 am

where are the screenshots?

GBJackson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 299

Report this Dec. 19 2007, 8:24 am

Quote (Kareal @ Dec. 18 2007, 9:10 pm)
Quote (Captain_Samurai @ Dec. 18 2007, 1:23 pm)
That's what everybody thought when SWG came out too, but we can all see how well that all turned out. From what we've seen, if STO comes out at all, its just going to be another run of the mill WoW copy with a sci fi skin on it. Sure people will buy and play it simply because its Star Trek, but my love of the franchise does not extend to masochism. That's why I left SWG in the first place.

The interesting thing about SWG was the fact that they took a great MMO and utterly destroyed it. ¿Its one of those weird things where a mMO got WORSE as time went on with patches and "dev" tinkering

What happened to SWG cannot be blamed on just one group. It is the fault of three groups:

The suits at LucasArts
The suits at Sony Online Entertainment
and the Whiners in the player community.

The whiners in the community bombarded SOE and LEC with demands of this or that, in spite of the fact that their demands were not in the spirit of the games original design, which had it been left alone and only built upon, would have resulted in a MMO that I suspect WoW would never have been able to compete with.

The Lucas Arts suits who essentially pull the strings of SOE's suits, issued directives for SOE to make the game more user friendly. Some of the devs who played WoW (For the record, WoW is a fun game if you don't try comparing it to other MMOs and just play it for what it is) thought it was fun and got the go-ahead (much to their admitted surprise) to run with it. This is the SOE left hand. The SOE right hand was working on Trials of Obi Wan and had no idea what the left hand was doing.

SOE released ToOW first and players enjoyed it briefly before the SOE left hand released the NGE on top of it, totally destroying everything that SWG players had known and loved.

It was not SOE developers that are to blame. It is the suits above them that make the decisions. And as long as people who are so out of touch with what a player base enjoys, or have no understanding of the source material upon which their MMO is based, the end result is going to fall drastically short of the mark.

To be honest, SWG NEVER has felt like Star Wars, even when it first launched. It had an awesome gameplay system which employed the concept of cross-playstyle symbiosis which meant that every playstyle served a purpose and existed together for mutual benefit.

I don't know what Raph Koster's ultimate vision for the game was. We never found out because he got promoted out of design and development for SWG. The rest of the key designers from the original team left shortly after that, either redirected to other SOE titles or for other dev companies. It seems clear to me that those who followed after them had no clues left for them as to the direction they needed to go with design... Either that or the suits told them to disregard whatever directives were left by the previous team. I lean more towards the former.

We are on either the 4th or 5th dev team to work on SWG. Each one has the un-envyable task of cleaning up the mess left by the ones who came before. I must say that I am impressed with Blixtev and his current team. They managed to do ten times more in a six month period than Helios and his team managed in nearly two years. And the devs are actually including players in the design process for each chapter. And most of what has gone in is, in one form or another, what players have asked for or suggested. They still tend to shove some of their own concepts into the mix, and many players don't like those elements, but the negative impact is less and less with each chapter...

Now, if they will just start writing content that is about main-stream Star Wars, it would be near perfect.

CommanderBlue

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9

Report this Jan. 04 2008, 1:48 pm

Quote (Kareal @ Dec. 18 2007, 9:10 pm)
Quote (Captain_Samurai @ Dec. 18 2007, 1:23 pm)
That's what everybody thought when SWG came out too, but we can all see how well that all turned out. From what we've seen, if STO comes out at all, its just going to be another run of the mill WoW copy with a sci fi skin on it. Sure people will buy and play it simply because its Star Trek, but my love of the franchise does not extend to masochism. That's why I left SWG in the first place.

The interesting thing about SWG was the fact that they took a great MMO and utterly destroyed it. ¿Its one of those weird things where a mMO got WORSE as time went on with patches and "dev" tinkering

As someone has said, a well done Star Trek MMO is essentially a licence to print money, a whole LOT of money. In Perpetual's hands it looks like it it'll be worse, far worse, than SWG is in its currently awful state. Meaning a huge opportunity lost to all concerned.

(World of Warcraft pulls in over $130 million a MONTH - 9 million subscribers x $15. You can bet a good Star Trek MMO would far exceed those subscriber numbers...)

The sooner the licence is yanked from those idiots at Perpetual, the better.

MigueIitoSan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1018

Report this Jan. 04 2008, 9:39 pm

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

ColonelGraff

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 628

Report this Jan. 05 2008, 9:29 am

Quote
Fast forward two years later. Cardassians, Klingons, and Ferengi are all included in ONE government, Federation

oops, how about you REWIND, buddy, because they were talking about this in 2005, back when your beloved ex-developers were still well on board.

Quote
a clunky Enterprise

? No idea what you're on about.
Quote
And finally, two years later, a lawsuit is filed.

I could file a lawsuit against you right now, that doesn't mean you're guilty, does it?

Quote
Activision

Oh yeah, because THEY have a great history in Star Trek gaming!

Quote
some company with at least ONE sucessful game under their belt.

Maybe Bethesda then? Oh.

MigueIitoSan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1018

Report this Jan. 05 2008, 7:27 pm

What?

TX_TREKKER

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 193

Report this Jan. 06 2008, 12:57 am

Well despite the pending lawsuit, STO seems to still be in production. I really think CBS should pull the license and put it in the hands of a good established company. A few people at mmorpg.com have been saying that Sony is good at picking up troubled MMOs.....then of course we all know from the SWG fan base that Sony may not do a good job. Either way I hope STO becomes a reality.

HoratioHornblower

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 530

Report this Jan. 10 2008, 6:03 am

Quote (GBJackson @ Dec. 15 2007, 8:32 am)
Bethesda SHOULD have focused on a morrowind/oblivion-type Roleplaying game set in the Star Trek universe. With the same level of end-user mod-ability and the lucrative element of retail expansions and purchasable digital content, eventually, the entire Star Trek universe could be represented.

Star Trek needs a non-linear roleplaying game. And it doesn't need to be a MMO. It doesn't even need to be multiplayer. It just needs to put the player in the middle of a storyline that can evolve through both player-made and official expansions, where the player feels like he or she is truly experiencing Trek.

Regarding the Bethesda license and the Trek games Bethesda could/should make: GBJackson gets my "WHAT HE SAID" award for the day!! I totally agree with the opinion he states in the quote above!!! If you havent played the RP games from the Elder Scrolls franchise (Morrowind & Oblivion were the last two), trust us: the notion of that same open-ended, in-depth, "alternate life" style of gameplay inside the Trek universe is something you would more than appreciate--you would cherish every moment you had to play.

If a player could "lead a Star Trek life" to the same extent you can "lead an Elder Scrolls life" the way Morrowind and Oblivion let a player, it would be the biggest Trek game success hands down. What the Elder Scrolls games did was to really make you feel as if you were living in that world of Tamriel. The Elder Scrolls franchise has always used the tagline "Live Another Life" and when you play the games you FEEL that. You are living the life of someone in the world of Tamriel, all of the details from the excitement to the mundane are present, and you ARE living that life. Simply put, imagine having that feeling in a Trek world? The game would be more than a huge success, it would be a work of art, just like the Elder Scrolls games are. Even the politics and racial prejudices are more than just sidefare in ES games.

So.....Even if Bethesda took the Oblivion engine and mapped out a ground-only Trek RP game (transport to move, no space), it would be a great step forward in Trek gaming. As long as the player FELT he was entering the Trek world when he started the game (like Bethesda does so effectively with the world of Tamriel), all but the most miserable of players would fall in love with Star Trek all over again!

GBJackson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 299

Report this Jan. 10 2008, 10:54 am

Quote
So.....Even if Bethesda took the Oblivion engine and mapped out a ground-only Trek RP game (transport to move, no space), it would be a great step forward in Trek gaming. As long as the player FELT he was entering the Trek world when he started the game (like Bethesda does so effectively with the world of Tamriel), all but the most miserable of players would fall in love with Star Trek all over again!


Technically, when you look at Star Trek, you realize that even when the characters are in space on a star ship, they walk around as if they are on the ground...

If you create an interior map for Morrowind or Oblivion, and you put a doorway at the edge, but forget to add a tile behind it, you look out into the void of the cell's 3D space. It is presented as whatever color the "fog" is set for in the area. It does not break the game. If they add a skybox depicting space, and the 3D tiles were that of Starfleet Ship corridors, any viewports looking out into the void would in fact be looking out into the stars.

Not sure how space combat can be handled... Something akin to Bridge Commander or Starfleet Command would work... Bridge Commander would probably be the best model to follow because of the immersive element. If you are captain, you would be in the "big chair" issueing orders. If you are helmsman, you would be at helm of course, controling ship movements, but not weapons.

Actually, engineering and the bridge would be sharing an interior cell while a battle is going on... Those two would need to be tied together, because as an engineer, you would be controling power regulations and conducting repairs on off-line systems.

And you know, if they used the development budget and had an on-going release process for purchased downloaded "episodes", they could hire a team of writers who understand Star Trek and keep turning out content. It would be like a TV series, but with virtual actors, virtual set. And the player would not just be watching it, but would get to EXPERIENCE it.

GBJackson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 299

Report this Jan. 10 2008, 10:58 am

One thing I would truly like to see is a fully realized starship, complete with corridors, all crew quarters, crawl spaces... and even the bathroom...

Because people in the 24th century DO have to pee :)

And Oblivion intruduced NPCs with schedules... Crew shift rotations could be simulated realistically. They can sleep, got to the mess hall, enjoy a holodeck excursion... etc...

I would also propose a real time timescale. One hour of real life time would equal one hour of in-game time... But since it would be single-player, I would have the freedom to press the "T" key and advance time to next event.

Let me explain that:

Let's say that I'm the captain and have ordered a course to Vulcan at warp seven. The trip will take 3 days. My ship has been ordered there to pick up a delegation of Federation ambassadors who were there for a conference.

Now the game will calculate potential encounters (events) while en route. The triggers for these events would be tied to the game clock. If I am playing for the full immersive experience, and one of these events isn't scheduled until twelve hours from now, I could continue to play in real time, or if I get bored, I could do a time advance.

The game would save itself, calculate NPC schedules, determine where I should be at the time the event is triggered (If I'm off-duty I would be in a random off-duty location. If I'm on duty, I will be on the bridge, sitting in the captain's chair) and the game resumes moments before the event occurs...

The T key would also allow me to wait XYZ, where X is days, Y is hours and Z is minutes. Using the above example, if I tried to wat 3 Days, the game would check for any scheduled events between current time and the waited time. In this case, it would allow 12 hours to pass, put me where I'm supposed to be and trigger the event.

What exactly is an event?

A randomly generated series of objectives that, if accepted, present endless gameplay possibilities within the scope of my character's current status. Some events would be optional. Some would be crucial... An optional event would be diverting to a nearby star system to render aid at a mining disaster site, or to swing by a malfunctioning subspace communications relay node and conduct repairs. A crusial event would be tied to the current story arc that is occurring. But since the game would employ real time, there would be plenty of opportunity to explore the possibilities.

What if I don't WANT to be in Starfleet at all?

We have seen in Star Trek many instances where civilian characters have their own ships and are free to explore the galaxy as they see fit. Through modding, or even a official limited story arc, this free-form gameplay could easlily be introduced... After all, in Oblivion, nothing forces the player to start the main quest. Or join any guilds. One can wanter about aimlessly doing whatever seems fun. So the same thing could be accomplished in a Star Trek setting.

CherryTerri

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2

Report this Jan. 13 2008, 2:18 pm

Quote (CommanderBlue @ Jan. 04 2008, 1:48 pm)
Quote (Kareal @ Dec. 18 2007, 9:10 pm)
Quote (Captain_Samurai @ Dec. 18 2007, 1:23 pm)
That's what everybody thought when SWG came out too, but we can all see how well that all turned out. From what we've seen, if STO comes out at all, its just going to be another run of the mill WoW copy with a sci fi skin on it. Sure people will buy and play it simply because its Star Trek, but my love of the franchise does not extend to masochism. That's why I left SWG in the first place.

The interesting thing about SWG was the fact that they took a great MMO and utterly destroyed it. ?Its one of those weird things where a mMO got WORSE as time went on with patches and "dev" tinkering

As someone has said, a well done Star Trek MMO is essentially a licence to print money, a whole LOT of money. In Perpetual's hands it looks like it it'll be worse, far worse, than SWG is in its currently awful state. Meaning a huge opportunity lost to all concerned.

(World of Warcraft pulls in over $130 million a MONTH - 9 million subscribers x $15. You can bet a good Star Trek MMO would far exceed those subscriber numbers...)

The sooner the licence is yanked from those idiots at Perpetual, the better.

WoW pulls in so much money from cartoony graphics and slutty drawn Night Elf women.  Ugh.

GBJackson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 299

Report this Jan. 13 2008, 9:05 pm

Quote
WoW pulls in so much money from cartoony graphics and slutty drawn Night Elf women.  Ugh.


Not many would agree with me, but in my opinion, WoW's cartoony graphics are one of its saving graces. Thinkabout it. Every game that comes out with photorealistic graphics looks very dated within a couple of years, because no matter how good graphics look, they will look even better on the next generation graphics card and game engines to come.

But a game intentionally designed with cartoony graphics like WoW will remain pretty much the same for MANY years. WoW is a good game for grouping or solo play. It's a polished game. I am currently subscribed to WoW, and I am not ashamed to admit it. I had a choice... SWG or WoW... I thought, let's see... Do I want to play a polished game that works as intended, or do I want to play one that is still broken after more than two years whose developers have the idea that useless fluff constitutes content...

Hmmm... tough choice... WoW won out effortlessly. When SOE gets their crap together and turns the game into a Star Wars game like it should have always been, I'll go back to it.

WoW is what it has always been. Some may not like the changes that the Expansion presented, but nobody MAKES you buy the expansion.

I just get sick and tired of every MMO developer using WoW as the model of their game, or trying to make their existing game more like it.

WoW's success is more about the company giving a damn about product quality rather than quantity... They built a quality product, and as a result, they didn't have to wory about quantity... it took care of itself. The numbers don't lie.

That's it... I'm off my soapbox.

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