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changing the past.

lanceromega

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 8:56 am

I just come a cross an interesting article from New Scientist about variation on Quantum Eraser Experiment where decision in the present can effect the past of a collections of photons:

Ever wish you could reach back in time and change the past? Maybe you'd like to take back an unfortunate voicemail message, or rephrase what you just said to your boss. Or perhaps you've even dreamed of tweaking the outcome of yesterday's lottery to make yourself the winner.

Common sense tells us that influencing the past is impossible - what's done is done, right? Even if it were possible, think of the mind-bending paradoxes it would create. While tinkering with the past, you might change the circumstances by which your parents met, derailing the key event that led to your birth.

Such are the perils of retrocausality, the idea that the present can affect the past, and the future can affect the present. Strange as it sounds, retrocausality is perfectly permissible within the known laws of nature. It has been debated for decades, mostly in the realm of philosophy and quantum physics. Trouble is, nobody has done the experiment to show it happens in the real world, so the door remains wide open for a demonstration.

It might even happen soon. Researchers are on the verge of experiments that will finally hold retrocausality's feet to the fire by attempting to send a signal to the past. What's more, they need not invoke black holes, wormholes, extra dimensions or other exotic implements of time travel. It should all be doable with the help of a state-of-the-art optics workbench and the bizarre yet familiar tricks of quantum particles. If retrocausality is confirmed - and that is a huge if - it would overturn our most cherished notions about the nature of cause and effect and how the universe works.

Dating back to Newton's laws of motion, the equations of physics are generally "time symmetric" - they work as well for processes running backwards through time as forwards. The situation got really strange in the early 20th century when Einstein devised his theory of relativity, with its four-dimensional fabric of space-time. In this model, our sense that history is unfolding is an illusion: the past, present and future all exist seamlessly in an unchanging "block" universe. "If you have the block universe view, the future and the past are not any different, so there's no reason why you can't have causes from the future just as you have causes from the past," says David Miller of the Centre for Time at the University of Sydney in Australia.

With the advent of quantum mechanics in the 1920s, the relative timing of particles and events became even less relevant. "Real temporal order in general, for quantum mechanics, is not important," says Caslav Brukner, a physicist at the University of Vienna, Austria. By the 1940s, researchers were exploring the possibility of time-reversed phenomena. Richard Feynman lent credibility to the idea by proposing that particles such as positrons, the antimatter equivalent of electrons, are simply normal particles travelling backwards in time. Feynman later expanded this idea with his mentor, John Wheeler of Princeton University. Together they worked out a theory of electrodynamics based on waves travelling forwards and backwards in time. Any proof of reverse causality, however, remained elusive.

Fast forward to 1978, when Wheeler proposed a variation on the classic double-slit experiment of quantum mechanics. Send photons through a barrier with two slits in it, and choose whether to detect the photons as waves or particles. If you put up a screen behind the slits, you will get a pattern of light and dark bands, as if each photon travels through both slits and interferes with itself, like a wave. If, on the other hand, you take a snapshot of the slits themselves, you will find each photon passes through one slit or the other: it is forced to pick a path, like a particle. But, Wheeler asked, what if you wait until just after the photon has passed the slits to make your choice? In theory, you could suddenly raise the screen to expose two cameras behind it, one trained on each slit. It would seem that you can affect where the photon went, and whether it behaved like a wave or particle, after the fact.

In 1986, Carroll Alley at the University of Maryland, College Park, found a way to test this idea using a more practical set-up: an interferometer which lets a photon take either one path or two after passing through a beam splitter. Sure enough, the photon's path depended on a choice made after the photon had to "make up its mind". Other groups have confirmed similar results, and at first blush this appears to show the present affecting the past. Most physicists, however, take the view that you can't say which path the photon took before the measurement is made. In other words, still no unambiguous evidence for retrocausality.

That's where John Cramer comes in. In the mid-1980s, working at the University of Washington, Seattle, he proposed the "transactional interpretation" of quantum mechanics, one of many attempts to relate the mathematics of quantum theory to the real world (New Scientist, 24 July 2004, p 30). It says particles interact by sending and receiving physical waves that travel forwards and backwards through time. This June, at a conference of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, Cramer proposed an experiment that can at last test for this sort of retrocausal influence. It combines the wave-particle effects of double slits with other mysterious quantum properties in an all-out effort to send signals to the past.

The experiment builds on work done in the late 1990s in Anton Zeilinger's lab, when he was at the University of Innsbruck, Austria. Researcher Birgit Dopfer found that photons that were "entangled", or linked by their properties such as momentum, showed the same wave-or-particle behaviour as one another. Using a crystal, Dopfer converted one laser beam into two so that photons in one beam were entangled with those in the other, and each pair was matched up by a circuit known as a coincidence detector. One beam passed through a double slit to a photon detector, while the other passed through a lens to a movable detector which could sense a photon in two different positions.

The movable detector is key, because in one position it effectively images the slits and measures each photon as a particle, while in the other it captures only a wave-like interference pattern. Dopfer showed that measuring a photon as a wave or a particle forced its twin in the other beam to be measured in the same way.

To use this set-up to send a signal, it needs to work without a coincidence circuit. Inspired by Raymond Jensen at Notre Dame University in Indiana, Cramer then proposed passing each beam through a double slit, not only to give the experimenter the choice of measuring photons as waves or particles, but also to help track photon pairs. The double slits should filter out most unentangled photons and either block or let pass both members of an entangled pair, at least in theory. So a photon arriving at one detector should have its twin appear at the other. As before, the way you measure one should affect the other. Jensen suggested that such a set-up might let you send a signal from one detector to another instantaneously - a highly controversial claim, since it would seem to demonstrate faster-than-light travel.

If you can do that, says Cramer, why not push it to be better-than-instantaneous, and try to make the signal arrive before it was sent? His extra twist is to run the photons you choose how to measure through several kilometres of coiled-up fibre-optic cable, thereby delaying them by microseconds (see Diagram). This delay means that the other beam will arrive at its detector before you make your choice. However, since the rules of quantum mechanics are indifferent to the timing of measurements, the state of the other beam should correspond to how you choose to measure the delayed beam. The effect of your choice can be seen, in principle, before you have even made it.

That's the idea anyway. What will the experimenters actually see? Cramer says they could control the movable detector so that it alternates between measuring wave-like and particle-like behaviour over time. They could compare that to the pattern from the beam that wasn't delayed and was recorded on a sensor from a digital camera. If this consistently shifts between an interference pattern and a smooth single-particle pattern a few microseconds before the respective choice is made on the delayed photons, that would support the concept of retrocausality. If not, it would be back to the drawing board.

Cramer says the plan is to do the instantaneous signalling experiment first, to iron out technical glitches from noise or errors in photon tracking, which would wreck the retrocausality experiment. Only after performing that would they add in the delay cables. "This experiment, if successful, would bring retrocausality into the macroscopic realm," says Cramer.

Other experts are supportive of the idea but sceptical of what it might mean. "It would be important to perform such an experiment just because of curiosity about interpretations," says Brukner. "If you accept the transactional interpretation, then this experiment would show a retrocausal influence." Cramer agrees it is speculative, but says the experiment is our best shot at seeing retrocausality in action. Because of the implications he is cautious, but still positive. "I don't see any show stopper yet," he says.

If the experiment does show evidence for retrocausation, it would open the door to some troubling paradoxes. If you could see the effects of your choice before you make it, could you then make the opposite choice and subvert the laws of nature? Some researchers have suggested retrocausality can only occur in limited circumstances in which not enough information is available for you to contradict the results of an experiment.

Another way to resolve this is to say that even if the present can influence the past, it cannot change it. The fact that your hair is shorter today has as much influence on your going to the barber yesterday as the other way around, yet you can't change that decision. "You wouldn't be able to talk about altering, but you could talk about causing or affecting," says Phil Dowe, an expert on causation at the University of Queensland in Australia. While it would mean we cannot change the past, it also implies that we cannot change the future.

If all that gives you a headache, then consider this: if retrocausality does exist, it says something profound about how the universe works. "It has the potential to solve what is one of the biggest problems in modern physics," says Huw Price, head of Sydney's Centre for Time. It goes back to quantum entanglement and "nonlocality" - one particle instantaneously affecting another, even from the other side of the galaxy. That doesn't sit well with relativity, which states that nothing can travel faster than light. Still, the latest experiments confirm that one particle can indeed instantaneously affect the other (New Scientist, 18 June 2005, p 32). Physicists argue that no information is transmitted this way: whether the spin of a particle is up or down, for instance, is random and can't be controlled, and thus relativity is not violated.

Retrocausality offers an alternative explanation. Measuring one entangled particle could send a wave backwards through time to the moment at which the pair was created. The signal would not need to move faster than light; it could simply retrace the first particle's path through space-time, arriving back at the spot where the two particles were emitted. There, the wave can interact with the second particle without violating relativity. "Retrocausation is a nice, simple, classical explanation for all this," Dowe says.

While the jury is out awaiting the results of Cramer's experiment, some researchers expect reverse causality will play an increasingly important role in our understanding of the universe. "I'm going with my gut here," says Avshalom Elitzur, a physicist and philosopher at Bar-Ilan University in Israel, "but I believe that when we finally find the theory we're all looking for, a theory that unifies quantum mechanics and relativity, it will involve retrocausality." If it also involves winning yesterday's lottery, Cramer won't be telling.

Why we are here
If retrocausality is real, it might even explain why life exists in the universe - exactly why the universe is so "finely tuned" for human habitation. Some physicists search for deeper laws to explain this fine-tuning, while others say there are millions of universes, each with different laws, so one universe could quite easily have the right laws by chance and, of course, that's the one we're in.

Paul Davies, a theoretical physicist at the Australian Centre for Astrobiology at Macquarie University in Sydney, suggests another possibility: the universe might actually be able to fine-tune itself. If you assume the laws of physics do not reside outside the physical universe, but rather are part of it, they can only be as precise as can be calculated from the total information content of the universe. The universe's information content is limited by its size, so just after the big bang, while the universe was still infinitesimally small, there may have been wiggle room, or imprecision, in the laws of nature.

And room for retrocausality. If it exists, the presence of conscious observers later in history could exert an influence on those first moments, shaping the laws of physics to be favourable for life. This may seem circular: life exists to make the universe suitable for life. If causality works both forwards and backwards, however, consistency between the past and the future is all that matters. "It offends our common-sense view of the world, but there's nothing to prevent causal influences from going both ways in time," Davies says. "If the conditions necessary for life are somehow written into the universe at the big bang, there must be some sort of two-way link."

picture:

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/archive/2571/25710901.jpg

Whitestar7

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 1:02 pm

Fascinating! When is the experiment slated to commence?

Whitestar7

Tannagra

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 1:08 pm

Why oh Why do we care about this kind of thing anyway? Go back in time to change things? Is it me, or does this seem like an ideal 'Military' agenda in the making??

Scientists, the older i get, make me very angry! People are dying all across the world due to lack of food or land is unable to sustain them, but they put their energies towards projects having absolutely no practical applications.

Why not put their energies towards better objectives?

Anyway im off to see why my toast lands butter side down...first i need to post my grant application letter!!

;)

lanceromega

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 2:17 pm

Quote (Tannagra @ Sep. 27 2006, 2:08 pm)
Why oh Why do we care about this kind of thing anyway? Go back in time to change things? Is it me, or does this seem like an ideal 'Military' agenda in the making??

Scientists, the older i get, make me very angry! People are dying all across the world due to lack of food or land is unable to sustain them, but they put their energies towards projects having absolutely no practical applications.

Why not put their energies towards better objectives?

Anyway im off to see why my toast lands butter side down...first i need to post my grant application letter!!

;)

People are not dying due to our lack of being able to produce enought food, as it stand we can produce more than enought food to feed all the humans on the planet. It not a failure of science but a failure of goverments around the world.


It not a useless experiment, first it tell us the nature of physical reality. From the beginning of Quantum mechanics there has been no explaination of why particles behave in this manner, while we can use the formula of QM to predicted a wide range of behavior the why have eluded physicist.

If Cramer is correct and particles do send signal into the past and can alter events due to action in the present it would solve one of the greatest Question of Quantum mechanics, the mechanism behind the collasp of the Quantum wave function..

This would be the starting point of a new era of physic. Present arguement against FTL travel would be dispel due to the fact that the so calll Weak energy condition, ( dealing with time travel and paradoxes due to altering the past) that is use as an major agruement, would be proven false.

What benefits this can bring to mankind i cannot predict, but no one was able to predict the changes of the world the Quantums mechanics has brought to our world. The rise of the PC and internet is directly due to Semiconductors which was result of solid state physics one of the many child fields of QM.

Military uses, well that is a sad side effect. No scientific discovery has ever been completely devoid of miltary application, just remember that same chemicals used to encourage the growth of crops are used in making explosives and nerve gas.

Energies toward a better objective! None better than revealing the ultimate nature of reality!!!

lanceromega

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 2:18 pm

Quote (Whitestar7 @ Sep. 27 2006, 2:02 pm)
Fascinating! When is the experiment slated to commence?

Whitestar7

Well cramer is in the process of conducting it. I would expect sometime next year to see a paper on his results.

Tannagra

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 2:19 pm

The Ultimate nature of reality?? Please dont make me laugh.

We cant even design a commercial airliner to travel twice the speed of sound...oh wait we did, but we scrapped it because it was too expensive to run, or so the airlines would make us believe.

Maybe we should sort our physical world out first, before we go fantasising about the metaphysical and theoretical world.

Tannagra

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 2:21 pm

In reality, its just proving once again that there is no bounds to the Human Ego..

We have hardly left our solar system but we are already saying we are on the verge of knowing everything.

lanceromega

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 2:32 pm

Quote (Tannagra @ Sep. 27 2006, 3:19 pm)
The Ultimate nature of reality?? Please dont make me laugh.

We cant even design a commercial airliner to travel twice the speed of sound...oh wait we did, but we scrapped it because it was too expensive to run, or so the airlines would make us believe.

Maybe we should sort our physical world out first, before we go fantasising about the metaphysical and theoretical world.

The problem with your statement is that this experiment deal with the physical world.

Quantum mechanics is the bases of everything from IC chips to lasers..

The fact that this experiment can explain the reason behind Quantum mechanics would yield unbelievable information that would allow us to actually control the manner that the Quantum waveform collaspes.

Presently components of the experiment,such as the quantum wave nature of particles is behind all electronics. Quantum entanglement is being researched to create quantum computing. Cramer experiment would give a greater understanding of both.

Image a computer that not only can compute in real time, but can actually use time in the past/ or future to make calculation. Or a telephone that allow it user to communicate instantousily ( or appear to) with anyone anywhere in the universe.

Fanasties deal with things that are not real or never can, while this is research with an actual physical experiment. One that can yield information of nature of reality that can help us overcome the present problems face in meshing QM with relativity..
metaphysical  no Metaphysics yes...

:p

Tannagra

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 2:37 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 28 2006, 2:32 pm)
Quote (Tannagra @ Sep. 27 2006, 3:19 pm)
The Ultimate nature of reality?? Please dont make me laugh.

We cant even design a commercial airliner to travel twice the speed of sound...oh wait we did, but we scrapped it because it was too expensive to run, or so the airlines would make us believe.

Maybe we should sort our physical world out first, before we go fantasising about the metaphysical and theoretical world.

The problem with your statement is that this experiment deal with the physical world.

Quantum mechanics is the bases of everything from IC chips to lasers..

The fact that this experiment can explain the reason behind Quantum mechanics would yield unbelievable information that would allow us to actually control the manner that Quantum waveform collaspes.

Presently components of the experiment,such the quantum wave nature of particles is behind all electronics. Quantum entanglement is being experimented to create quantum computing. Cramer experiment would give a greater understanding of both.

Image a computer that not only can compute in real time, but can actually use time in the past/ or future to make calculation. Or a telephone that allow it user to communicate instantousily ( or appear to) with anyone anywhere in the universe.

Fanasties are just that, this is research an actual physical experiment. One that can yield information of nature of reality that can help us overcome the present problems face in meshing QM with relativity..

:p

Lancer

Ill give more for food for people to eat and energy for people to use, non polluting that is, and enough water for people to drink.

Once we have solved all these problems, then scientists can feel free to indulge themselves, but while these problems persist its nothing but glory seeking on their part.

lanceromega

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Report this Sep. 28 2006, 2:55 pm

Quote (Tannagra @ Sep. 27 2006, 3:37 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 28 2006, 2:32 pm)
Quote (Tannagra @ Sep. 27 2006, 3:19 pm)
The Ultimate nature of reality?? Please dont make me laugh.

We cant even design a commercial airliner to travel twice the speed of sound...oh wait we did, but we scrapped it because it was too expensive to run, or so the airlines would make us believe.

Maybe we should sort our physical world out first, before we go fantasising about the metaphysical and theoretical world.

The problem with your statement is that this experiment deal with the physical world.

Quantum mechanics is the bases of everything from IC chips to lasers..

The fact that this experiment can explain the reason behind Quantum mechanics would yield unbelievable information that would allow us to actually control the manner that Quantum waveform collaspes.

Presently components of the experiment,such the quantum wave nature of particles is behind all electronics. Quantum entanglement is being experimented to create quantum computing. Cramer experiment would give a greater understanding of both.

Image a computer that not only can compute in real time, but can actually use time in the past/ or future to make calculation. Or a telephone that allow it user to communicate instantousily ( or appear to) with anyone anywhere in the universe.

Fanasties are just that, this is research an actual physical experiment. One that can yield information of nature of reality that can help us overcome the present problems face in meshing QM with relativity..

:p

Lancer

Ill give more for food for people to eat and energy for people to use, non polluting that is, and enough water for people to drink.

Once we have solved all these problems, then scientists can feel free to indulge themselves, but while these problems persist its nothing but glory seeking on their part.

Tannara there plenty of food, as it stand there too much and obesity is the leading health hazard of this decade. It not making the food but the economic and political systems that fail to distribute it to those that need it most.

The same can be said of energy, Like the problems we face with food it not the production of energy but how we use it that create problems. Communities where renewable and emission free solution have been attempted have resulted in campaigns to prevent these means of being deployed.

Both in the usa major battles have been conducted not only against nuclear power but against wind power because they are consided an eye sore!

Desaliation plants can be buildt but due to finanical consideration they are not. Economicism not science is to blame.

You cannot limit what scientist are permitted to research, discovery such as darwin theory of evolution or einstein  theory of relativity would have never came into being if they were limited to practical application..

Practical application are the meat and butter of engineers, scientist trend to deal with the borders of our knowledge..

Whitestar7

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Report this Sep. 29 2006, 8:05 am

Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 28 2006, 8:56 am)
Common sense tells us that influencing the past is impossible -what's done is done, right? Even if it were possible, think of the mind-bending paradoxes it would create. While tinkering with the past, you might change the circumstances by which your parents met, derailing the key event that led to your birth.

Such are the perils of retrocausality, the idea that the present can affect the past, and the future can affect the present. Strange as it sounds, retrocausality is perfectly permissible within the known laws of nature. It has been debated for decades, mostly in the realm of philosophy and quantum physics. Trouble is, nobody has done the experiment to show it happens in the real world, so the door remains wide open for a demonstration.

It might even happen soon. Researchers are on the verge of experiments that will finally hold retrocausality's feet to the fire by attempting to send a signal to the past. What's more, they need not invoke black holes, wormholes, extra dimensions or other exotic implements of time travel. It should all be doable with the help of a state-of-the-art optics workbench and the bizarre yet familiar tricks of quantum particles.

1) So, with this experiment alone, Cramer will be able to determine if time travel to the past or future is possible?

2) And will this experiment also determine if the past can be altered, fufilled, or parallel?

Whitestar7

lanceromega

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Report this Sep. 29 2006, 12:46 pm

Quote (Whitestar7 @ Sep. 28 2006, 9:05 am)
Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 28 2006, 8:56 am)
Common sense tells us that influencing the past is impossible -what's done is done, right? Even if it were possible, think of the mind-bending paradoxes it would create. While tinkering with the past, you might change the circumstances by which your parents met, derailing the key event that led to your birth.

Such are the perils of retrocausality, the idea that the present can affect the past, and the future can affect the present. Strange as it sounds, retrocausality is perfectly permissible within the known laws of nature. It has been debated for decades, mostly in the realm of philosophy and quantum physics. Trouble is, nobody has done the experiment to show it happens in the real world, so the door remains wide open for a demonstration.

It might even happen soon. Researchers are on the verge of experiments that will finally hold retrocausality's feet to the fire by attempting to send a signal to the past. What's more, they need not invoke black holes, wormholes, extra dimensions or other exotic implements of time travel. It should all be doable with the help of a state-of-the-art optics workbench and the bizarre yet familiar tricks of quantum particles.

1) So, with this experiment alone, Cramer will be able to determine if time travel to the past or future is possible?

2) And will this experiment also determine if the past can be altered, fufilled, or parallel?

Whitestar7

1) Cramer experiment will prove that communication , at least on a quantum scale into the past is possible. Cramer is support of the transactional model of QM, one of the many interpration of what QM means.

2) well transactional view would have the past as be changable, being alter by events in the present. It would not be fix.

This is different from parallel that would be the Many world or sum of the path approach.

A fix would be Coperhagen intrepration

Whitestar7

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Report this Sep. 29 2006, 1:21 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 28 2006, 8:56 am)
Common sense tells us that influencing the past is impossible -what's done is done, right? Even if it were possible, think of the mind-bending paradoxes it would create. While tinkering with the past, you might change the circumstances by which your parents met, derailing the key event that led to your birth.

Such are the perils of retrocausality, the idea that the present can affect the past, and the future can affect the present. Strange as it sounds, retrocausality is perfectly permissible within the known laws of nature. It has been debated for decades, mostly in the realm of philosophy and quantum physics. Trouble is, nobody has done the experiment to show it happens in the real world, so the door remains wide open for a demonstration.

It might even happen soon. Researchers are on the verge of experiments that will finally hold retrocausality's feet to the fire by attempting to send a signal to the past. What's more, they need not invoke black holes, wormholes, extra dimensions or other exotic implements of time travel. It should all be doable with the help of a state-of-the-art optics workbench and the bizarre yet familiar tricks of quantum particles.


Quote (Whitestar7 @ Sep. 28 2006, 9:05 am)

1) So, with this experiment alone, Cramer will be able to determine if time travel to the past or future is possible?

2) And will this experiment also determine if the past can be altered, fufilled, or parallel?

Whitestar7


Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 29 2006, 12:46 pm)

1) Cramer experiment will prove that communication , at least on a quantum scale into the past is possible. Cramer is support of the transactional model of QM, one of the many interpration of what QM means.

2) well transactional view would have the past as be changable, being alter by events in the present. It would not be fix.

This is different from parallel that would be the Many world or sum of the path approach.

A fix would be Coperhagen intrepration

If the experiment does show evidence for retrocausation, it would open the door to some troubling paradoxes. If you could see the effects of your choice before you make it, could you then make the opposite choice and subvert the laws of nature? Some researchers have suggested retrocausality can only occur in limited circumstances in which not enough information is available for you to contradict the results of an experiment. Another way to resolve this is to say that even if the present can influence the past, it cannot change it. The fact that your hair is shorter today has as much influence on your going to the barber yesterday as the other way around, yet you can't change that decision. "You wouldn't be able to talk about altering, but you could talk about causing or affecting," says Phil Dowe, an expert on causation at the University of Queensland in Australia. While it would mean we cannot change the past, it also implies that we cannot change the future.


From what I understand, we can affect or influence the past, but we can never change it, correct?

Whitestar7

lanceromega

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Report this Sep. 29 2006, 1:53 pm

Quote (Whitestar7 @ Sep. 28 2006, 2:21 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 29 2006, 12:46 pm)
Quote (Whitestar7 @ Sep. 28 2006, 9:05 am)
Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 28 2006, 8:56 am)
Common sense tells us that influencing the past is impossible -what's done is done, right? Even if it were possible, think of the mind-bending paradoxes it would create. While tinkering with the past, you might change the circumstances by which your parents met, derailing the key event that led to your birth.

Such are the perils of retrocausality, the idea that the present can affect the past, and the future can affect the present. Strange as it sounds, retrocausality is perfectly permissible within the known laws of nature. It has been debated for decades, mostly in the realm of philosophy and quantum physics. Trouble is, nobody has done the experiment to show it happens in the real world, so the door remains wide open for a demonstration.

It might even happen soon. Researchers are on the verge of experiments that will finally hold retrocausality's feet to the fire by attempting to send a signal to the past. What's more, they need not invoke black holes, wormholes, extra dimensions or other exotic implements of time travel. It should all be doable with the help of a state-of-the-art optics workbench and the bizarre yet familiar tricks of quantum particles.

1) So, with this experiment alone, Cramer will be able to determine if time travel to the past or future is possible?

2) And will this experiment also determine if the past can be altered, fufilled, or parallel?

Whitestar7

1) Cramer experiment will prove that communication , at least on a quantum scale into the past is possible. Cramer is support of the transactional model of QM, one of the many interpration of what QM means.

2) well transactional view would have the past as be changable, being alter by events in the present. It would not be fix.

This is different from parallel that would be the Many world or sum of the path approach.

A fix would be Coperhagen intrepration

Here is a quote from your statement:

"If the experiment does show evidence for retrocausation, it would open the door to some troubling paradoxes. If you could see the effects of your choice before you make it, could you then make the opposite choice and subvert the laws of nature? Some researchers have suggested retrocausality can only occur in limited circumstances in which not enough information is available for you to contradict the results of an experiment. Another way to resolve this is to say that even if the present can influence the past, it cannot change it. The fact that your hair is shorter today has as much influence on your going to the barber yesterday as the other way around, yet you can't change that decision. "You wouldn't be able to talk about altering, but you could talk about causing or affecting," says Phil Dowe, an expert on causation at the University of Queensland in Australia. While it would mean we cannot change the past, it also implies that we cannot change the future."

From what I understand, we can affect or influence the past, but we can never change it, correct?

It the "Suggestion of Some researchers", that retrocausality can only happen when we are unsure of all the information surrounding events.

this can be observe  another experement called the Quantum eraser which allow you to change your choice, not just once but as many time as you want as long as you donot actually check the results of the experiment. Once you stop changing the path the photon takes and measure whether the photon is behaving as either a wave or a particle you can no longer alter the photon behavior..

Cramer newest experiment would go beyond the Eraser experiment and actually let you see the past as you tinker with the present. If it works then those researchers will be proven wrong..

Whitestar7

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Report this Sep. 29 2006, 2:40 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 29 2006, 1:53 pm)
Quote (Whitestar7 @ Sep. 28 2006, 2:21 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 29 2006, 12:46 pm)
Quote (Whitestar7 @ Sep. 28 2006, 9:05 am)
Quote (lanceromega @ Sep. 28 2006, 8:56 am)
Common sense tells us that influencing the past is impossible -what's done is done, right? Even if it were possible, think of the mind-bending paradoxes it would create. While tinkering with the past, you might change the circumstances by which your parents met, derailing the key event that led to your birth.

Such are the perils of retrocausality, the idea that the present can affect the past, and the future can affect the present. Strange as it sounds, retrocausality is perfectly permissible within the known laws of nature. It has been debated for decades, mostly in the realm of philosophy and quantum physics. Trouble is, nobody has done the experiment to show it happens in the real world, so the door remains wide open for a demonstration.

It might even happen soon. Researchers are on the verge of experiments that will finally hold retrocausality's feet to the fire by attempting to send a signal to the past. What's more, they need not invoke black holes, wormholes, extra dimensions or other exotic implements of time travel. It should all be doable with the help of a state-of-the-art optics workbench and the bizarre yet familiar tricks of quantum particles.

1) So, with this experiment alone, Cramer will be able to determine if time travel to the past or future is possible?

2) And will this experiment also determine if the past can be altered, fufilled, or parallel?

Whitestar7

1) Cramer experiment will prove that communication , at least on a quantum scale into the past is possible. Cramer is support of the transactional model of QM, one of the many interpration of what QM means.

2) well transactional view would have the past as be changable, being alter by events in the present. It would not be fix.

This is different from parallel that would be the Many world or sum of the path approach.

A fix would be Coperhagen intrepration

Here is a quote from your statement:

"If the experiment does show evidence for retrocausation, it would open the door to some troubling paradoxes. If you could see the effects of your choice before you make it, could you then make the opposite choice and subvert the laws of nature? Some researchers have suggested retrocausality can only occur in limited circumstances in which not enough information is available for you to contradict the results of an experiment. Another way to resolve this is to say that even if the present can influence the past, it cannot change it. The fact that your hair is shorter today has as much influence on your going to the barber yesterday as the other way around, yet you can't change that decision. "You wouldn't be able to talk about altering, but you could talk about causing or affecting," says Phil Dowe, an expert on causation at the University of Queensland in Australia. While it would mean we cannot change the past, it also implies that we cannot change the future."

From what I understand, we can affect or influence the past, but we can never change it, correct?

It the "Suggestion of Some researchers", that retrocausality can only happen when we are unsure of all the information surrounding events.

this can be observe ¿another experement called the Quantum eraser which allow you to change your choice, not just once but as many time as you want as long as you donot actually check the results of the experiment. Once you stop changing the path the photon takes and measure whether the photon is behaving as either a wave or a particle you can no longer alter the photon behavior..

Cramer newest experiment would go beyond the Eraser experiment and actually let you see the past as you tinker with the present. If it works then those researchers will be proven wrong..

But if Cramer is right, are we in danger of erasing our own history, as well as existance?

Whitestar7

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