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No Cannon in STO

PhantomCrunk007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5088

Report this Aug. 07 2006, 6:48 pm

We all saw what happened to that other successfull sci-fi franchise MMORPG that got bogged down by people who wanted everything according to george lucas. If perpetual is smart, they will ignore this fringe group of people who only make the game worse. Let the game be what it is. If it's not what captain kirk would have done or did, who cares, its just a game and make believe anyways. Please, all you trek purists, you ruined ENTERPRISE, don't ruin this game.   :angry:

Syler_Akeron

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POSTS: 58

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 5:18 am

We dont have to worry about sticking to a story line because it's set 20 years past Star Trek Nemesis.  They can pretty much make anything up.

MadMickey

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POSTS: 146

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 10:13 am

Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Aug. 07 2006, 6:48 pm)
We all saw what happened to that other successfull sci-fi franchise MMORPG that got bogged down by people who wanted everything according to george lucas. If perpetual is smart, they will ignore this fringe group of people who only make the game worse. Let the game be what it is. If it's not what captain kirk would have done or did, who cares, its just a game and make believe anyways. Please, all you trek purists, you ruined ENTERPRISE, don't ruin this game. ¿ :angry:

(For the record, it wasn't Trek Purists that ruined Enterprise, it was the constant re-writing of Star Trek continuity and complete refusal by those in charge to accept established Trek canon).

SamFred81

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POSTS: 67

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 10:28 am

SWG buried itself because it was nothing like the great movies, books, and comics that inspired it. The developers of the game decided to throw away canon and allow thousands of Jedi to roam around in a period where the existing Jedi were thought to be long dead or in hiding. Thanks to that, we have lightsaber duels infront of every starport, in every cantina, and on every planet.

If Perpetual is smart, which I think they are, they will avoid this fate at all costs by creating a quality game in the best traditions of Star Trek.

As for Enterprise, it was ruined by UPN and that Friday night timeslot. Nothing says ratings like a show scheduled during Friday night high school football.

MAXIMISE

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 194

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 1:29 pm

Totally agreed SamFred.

Phantom, you definitely got it backwards, SWG fails because it wasn't immersive continuity wise (according to Lucas) at all. Also nothing you do in that game feels meaningful at all. SWG also failed because a lot of the stuff you could do felt more like work then play (they have recently realised this though, so we'll see)

STO will need a decent tip of the hat to Trek Continuity, and though it is slightly ironic considering Treks past dealings with its own dreadful continuity, it must do service to Trek vibrant and well developed past because that is the bare minimum expectation we have.
Admittedly Trek only has bad conituity because its been around for like 40 years and has had to make money all that time, so rules had to be bent and broken in favour of fiscal expediency.

Star Wars actually has bad continuity to the point where because the films are king (and only had to pander to themselves), you have to ignore or even mentally rewrite some of the franchises finer novels and comics to fit with the film info. Trek is simply strict in that only filmed information wins continuity issues in the saga (I am sure some geeks out there have a Canon heirarchy).

Max

Tannagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15354

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 1:37 pm

Quote (SamFred81 @ Aug. 08 2006, 10:28 am)
SWG buried itself because it was nothing like the great movies, books, and comics that inspired it. The developers of the game decided to throw away canon and allow thousands of Jedi to roam around in a period where the existing Jedi were thought to be long dead or in hiding. Thanks to that, we have lightsaber duels infront of every starport, in every cantina, and on every planet.

If Perpetual is smart, which I think they are, they will avoid this fate at all costs by creating a quality game in the best traditions of Star Trek.

As for Enterprise, it was ruined by UPN and that Friday night timeslot. Nothing says ratings like a show scheduled during Friday night high school football.

Regarding 'Enterprise' everyone has either a DVD or a VHS recorder nowadays..the old arguments about timeslots are no longer a valid argument as in the TOS days.

MAXIMISE

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 194

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 2:18 pm

I think more to the point Tannagra, shows are cancelled even when they are loved because we don't actually watch the show when it is aired, but timeshift and thus not fill out a proper rating sheet or get registered viewer data properly (or we simply download it) and never watch there ads. Thus there is no way currently to know for sure how many people are actually watching the show. Hence why there is an attempt of a big shift from neilsen to sales (DVD) as a marker of success. Too bad the archaic system currently being used still relies completely on Ad revenue to ensure good shows stay funded. :(

Max

frozenbacon

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POSTS: 24

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 5:38 pm

Quote (SamFred81 @ Aug. 08 2006, 10:28 am)
SWG buried itself because it was nothing like the great movies, books, and comics that inspired it. The developers of the game decided to throw away canon and allow thousands of Jedi to roam around in a period where the existing Jedi were thought to be long dead or in hiding. Thanks to that, we have lightsaber duels infront of every starport, in every cantina, and on every planet.

If Perpetual is smart, which I think they are, they will avoid this fate at all costs by creating a quality game in the best traditions of Star Trek.

As for Enterprise, it was ruined by UPN and that Friday night timeslot. Nothing says ratings like a show scheduled during Friday night high school football.

Yea, perpetual should have learned a lot from SWG. Another famous and powerful sci-fi franchise yet it crashed and burned.

If this game undergoes a iconic and "Star Trekky" update in the future I will just lose all hope in MMO developoers.

Tannagra

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POSTS: 15354

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 5:39 pm

Quote (MAXIMISE @ Aug. 08 2006, 2:18 pm)
I think more to the point Tannagra, shows are cancelled even when they are loved because we don't actually watch the show when it is aired, but timeshift and thus not fill out a proper rating sheet or get registered viewer data properly (or we simply download it) and never watch there ads. Thus there is no way currently to know for sure how many people are actually watching the show. Hence why there is an attempt of a big shift from neilsen to sales (DVD) as a marker of success. Too bad the archaic system currently being used still relies completely on Ad revenue to ensure good shows stay funded. :(

Max

Yes, have to agree there. The whole ratings this is an anachronism and needs updating.

Maybe the reviewing family could fill out a sheet at the end of the week of programmes they watched..irrespective of if they recorded them or not?

PhantomCrunk007

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POSTS: 5088

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 10:12 pm

Quote (MadMickey @ Aug. 08 2006, 10:13 am)
(For the record, it wasn't Trek Purists that ruined Enterprise, it was the constant re-writing of Star Trek continuity and complete refusal by those in charge to accept established Trek canon).

So in otherwords, it was the trek purists that ruined the show. All that complaining and it's all just make believe. ¿:angry:

PhantomCrunk007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5088

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 10:15 pm

Quote (SamFred81 @ Aug. 08 2006, 10:28 am)
SWG buried itself because it was nothing like the great movies, books, and comics that inspired it. The developers of the game decided to throw away canon and allow thousands of Jedi to roam around in a period where the existing Jedi were thought to be long dead or in hiding. Thanks to that, we have lightsaber duels infront of every starport, in every cantina, and on every planet.

Thats what im talking about. Why cant you guys just play the game. I will agree that making Jedi a starting profession REALLY ruined the game, but the fact that Jedi was included as a profession that had to be earned was great. Perhaps STO should go along the same lines for higher ranks such as captian and admiral. Think about it if captains were made a starting profession. EVERYONE WOULD WANT TO BE ONE.

STOCaptain01

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POSTS: 1369

Report this Aug. 08 2006, 11:16 pm

Phantom I have no idea where you get your ideas. When they added jedi, it ruined the game. Not just because it was an alpha class, but also because everyone started grinding and the cities became emptied. Hate grew between non-jedi and jedi. The devs treated the jedi player base like their kings even though there was more non-jedi.

About Enterprise. Theres a couple reasons why it was lost, and it showing on a Friday night during a high school football game isnt one. They suddenly moved it to Friday after people had gotten used to a Wednesday (or maybe it was Tuesday), a lot of people would set that time aside for Star Trek Ent. But UPN suddenly moved it without much of a warning. But the time STE was on was also the same time of SciFi Channel's friday night lineup which most scifi fans watched. So all the fans who liked StarGate AND Star Trek would have to choose between either one of the shows unless they could record one while watching the other. And of course, the quality of the show went down, the music and visuals seemed to get worse. ITs kind of ironic that the show went downhill after getting an Emmy (or was it a nomination? anyways an emmy nomination or award is good for a show) in its first season, you would think it would boost the morale of the cast & crew.

But thats just my opinion.

HisRoyalHighnessTheKing

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POSTS: 34248

Report this Aug. 09 2006, 12:19 am

Quote
Please, all you trek purists, you ruined ENTERPRISE


The only people who ruined ENT were the producers and writers.

PhantomCrunk007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5088

Report this Aug. 09 2006, 12:55 am

Quote (HisRoyalHighnessTheKing @ Aug. 09 2006, 12:19 am)
Quote
Please, all you trek purists, you ruined ENTERPRISE


The only people who ruined ENT were the producers and writers.

and the picky purists that couldn't understand it was just entertainment, not real.

PhantomCrunk007

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5088

Report this Aug. 09 2006, 1:06 am

Quote (STOCaptain01 @ Aug. 08 2006, 11:16 pm)
Phantom I have no idea where you get your ideas. When they added jedi, it ruined the game. Not just because it was an alpha class, but also because everyone started grinding and the cities became emptied. Hate grew between non-jedi and jedi. The devs treated the jedi player base like their kings even though there was more non-jedi.

About Enterprise. Theres a couple reasons why it was lost, and it showing on a Friday night during a high school football game isnt one. They suddenly moved it to Friday after people had gotten used to a Wednesday (or maybe it was Tuesday), a lot of people would set that time aside for Star Trek Ent. But UPN suddenly moved it without much of a warning. But the time STE was on was also the same time of SciFi Channel's friday night lineup which most scifi fans watched. So all the fans who liked StarGate AND Star Trek would have to choose between either one of the shows unless they could record one while watching the other. And of course, the quality of the show went down, the music and visuals seemed to get worse. ITs kind of ironic that the show went downhill after getting an Emmy (or was it a nomination? anyways an emmy nomination or award is good for a show) in its first season, you would think it would boost the morale of the cast & crew.

But thats just my opinion.

About Enterprise, I agree with you about the fact that it was moved around its lineup too much. My main beef is the fact that everyone was so hung up on "cannon" can you blame the producers for just giving up on it when they had such bad feedback. Some of us thought Enterprise was good.


As far as the jedi situation on SWG, i think Jedi was the best thing to happen to the game. It was the people, again hung up on cannon, that made life miserable in game. As far as no content, you are absolutly correct. IF the devs spent as much time giving love to ALL the professions, instead of giving in to the pro jedi people one day, then nerfing them to appease the anti jedi people the next, SWG would still be a great game WITH jedi included. But i must add, that i was a jedi and i knew bounty hunters that i could own and ones that owned me, so all this talk about alpha class is nonsense.

On a positive note, i hope perpetual takes the train wreck that was SWG and learns from it. Don't even get me started on the NGE. ¿If I ever see "more star treky and iconic" im gonna puke.

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