Jakespeed GROUP: Members POSTS: 1  |
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Dec. 24 2005, 9:03 pm
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Finally, 2D movement helps make the game accessible. STO needs to reach a large market, and in order to do that, it has to be easy to learn. Piloting a ship needs to be almost second nature. It certainly can't require elaborate training. In fact, that's a universal rule for STO: the very basic version of every game concept can be grasped very quickly, but it has hidden depth. Just because we're making the game accessible doesn't mean we're dumbing it down - we're just introducing the complexity slowly, over time. While a young ensign might only be able to handle movement in a 2D plane, a seasoned veteran knows many tricks and maneuvers that take the ship out of that plane. They might do this to attack the top or underside of an enemy, get between two enemy ships, or escape into a nebula. 3D movement isn't missing from STO, but it's also not an immediate and constant concern
Just a quote from the article.
It scares me when they speakof "reaching a large market, easy to learn, and dumbing down".
Sounds exactly like SWG at CU and NGE time, I really hope this doesnt turn into a mind numbing console game!
We do love more detail, more depth, more of a learning curve, its not space invaders from 20 years ago. If they wanna make a 2D console style game they may as well put it in file 13 now.
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VulcanInfiltrator GROUP: Members POSTS: 314 |
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Dec. 25 2005, 2:06 am
| Quote (Jakespeed @ Dec. 24 2005, 6:03 pm) | Sounds exactly like SWG at CU and NGE time, I really hope this doesnt turn into a mind numbing console game!
We do love more detail, more depth, more of a learning curve, its not space invaders from 20 years ago. If they wanna make a 2D console style game they may as well put it in file 13 now. |
Since when do console games and 2D space combat go hand in hand? No self-respecting console developer would even consider making a 2-D space game. |
TheFounder GROUP: Members POSTS: 15676 |
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Dec. 25 2005, 2:59 am
| Quote (VulcanInfiltrator @ Dec. 24 2005, 11:06 pm) | | Quote (Jakespeed @ Dec. 24 2005, 6:03 pm) | Sounds exactly like SWG at CU and NGE time, I really hope this doesnt turn into a mind numbing console game!
We do love more detail, more depth, more of a learning curve, its not space invaders from 20 years ago. If they wanna make a 2D console style game they may as well put it in file 13 now. |
Since when do console games and 2D space combat go hand in hand? No self-respecting console developer would even consider making a 2-D space game. |
Unless it's for Gameboy SP. |
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VulcanInfiltrator GROUP: Members POSTS: 314 |
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Dec. 25 2005, 3:00 am
Yeah, but I don't really consider handhelds to be consoles, in fact, I never consider them at all.
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Stormrage GROUP: Members POSTS: 496 |
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Jan. 02 2006, 6:48 am
PE are crazy. They should make it like Bridge commander expect more community wise. The captain can tell the helmsman what to do. All he does is controll the ship. While the tactical fires.
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VulcanInfiltrator GROUP: Members POSTS: 314 |
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Jan. 03 2006, 1:27 am
Anyone played the space segments in Star Wars Battlefronts 2?
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DojhromTRW GROUP: Members POSTS: 240 |
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Jan. 04 2006, 12:20 pm
2-d is great for a "Esign Mode" But we are talking starships. I think of battles between submarines. Experienced crews will use every meter of water at their disposal to get the kill and avoid detection systems.
I say the system could start off 2-d and then a "Guild" or "Clan" could unlock a 3-d system after time doing missions together.
"You crew has recieved an special invite to the Zackdorn Tactical College, report to sector [X,Y,Z] for mission training"
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CinCUFPForcesCardassia GROUP: Members POSTS: 219 |
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Jan. 04 2006, 3:59 pm
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DojhromTRW GROUP: Members POSTS: 240 |
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Jan. 04 2006, 6:01 pm
Sounds Like SFC III. ..The key is will there be a upper and lower shield system and armor? If not then it will be exactly like SFC III where the 2-D plane shifts to allow the ships to pass and timing the attack to AS the weakest shield in the Arc. Under this rule it is still 2-D Combat. If the Devs only count 1 time they have seen ships inverted and twisted in combat they have not watched the same show we all have. Wrath of Kahn, Every multi-ship encounter with the Borg, The Liberation of Cardassia, etc . . All 3-D. They might be meeting the system 1/2 way where "breaking the plane" will allow extra damage to the attacks or an increased defensive option. As it stands right now, I'm passing the word that combat is like SFC III ... which isn't that bad for 2-d |
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CinCUFPForcesCardassia GROUP: Members POSTS: 219 |
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Jan. 04 2006, 8:14 pm
| Quote (DojhromTRW @ Jan. 04 2006, 3:01 pm) |
Sounds Like SFC III. ..The key is will there be a upper and lower shield system and armor? If not then it will be exactly like SFC III where the 2-D plane shifts to allow the ships to pass and timing the attack to AS the weakest shield in the Arc. Under this rule it is still 2-D Combat. If the Devs only count 1 time they have seen ships inverted and twisted in combat they have not watched the same show we all have. Wrath of Kahn, Every multi-ship encounter with the Borg, The Liberation of Cardassia, etc . . All 3-D. They might be meeting the system 1/2 way where "breaking the plane" will allow extra damage to the attacks or an increased defensive option. As it stands right now, I'm passing the word that combat is like SFC III ... which isn't that bad for 2-d |
Never played SFCIII, so I can't quite say I can envision the combat system you're describing. As far as I know, breaking the plane literally means attacking from a 3D experience. To quote Eric again, "3D movement isn't missing from STO, but it's also not an immediate and constant concern." It's not represented by way of a damage or defensive modifier, but physically moving in the gamespace on Z-axis level. On the other hand, I can't tell you that for sure because this is the only data we have on movement. There's nothing else, and at this stage it's probably pretty unfair to tell anybody that combat is going to be like anything. We simply don't know, and they're already having a hard enough time getting people to understand the game isn't going to be FPS-based anymore. |
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DojhromTRW GROUP: Members POSTS: 240 |
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Jan. 05 2006, 11:40 am
| Quote (CinCUFPForcesCardassia @ Jan. 04 2006, 5:14 pm) | | Quote (DojhromTRW @ Jan. 04 2006, 3:01 pm) |
Sounds Like SFC III. ..The key is will there be a upper and lower shield system and armor? If not then it will be exactly like SFC III where the 2-D plane shifts to allow the ships to pass and timing the attack to AS the weakest shield in the Arc. Under this rule it is still 2-D Combat. If the Devs only count 1 time they have seen ships inverted and twisted in combat they have not watched the same show we all have. Wrath of Kahn, Every multi-ship encounter with the Borg, The Liberation of Cardassia, etc . . All 3-D. They might be meeting the system 1/2 way where "breaking the plane" will allow extra damage to the attacks or an increased defensive option. As it stands right now, I'm passing the word that combat is like SFC III ... which isn't that bad for 2-d |
Never played SFCIII, so I can't quite say I can envision the combat system you're describing.
As far as I know, breaking the plane literally means attacking from a 3D experience. To quote Eric again, "3D movement isn't missing from STO, but it's also not an immediate and constant concern." It's not represented by way of a damage or defensive modifier, but physically moving in the gamespace on Z-axis level.
On the other hand, I can't tell you that for sure because this is the only data we have on movement. There's nothing else, and at this stage it's probably pretty unfair to tell anybody that combat is going to be like anything. We simply don't know, and they're already having a hard enough time getting people to understand the game isn't going to be FPS-based anymore. |
The best way to describe the SFC combat system is Submarines of Early WW2. They mainly traveled on the surface [2-plane] and when they encountered each other they submerged when they came in contact with each other. [Wrath of Khan shows this very well]. The did not -twist -invert etc just the inertia movements of manuavers. It was bubble up and bubble down, ECM, sonar, and locking weapons. Stressful yet simple combat methods. A true 3-d System would "Blimps and Bi-planes" in which altitudes and angles of attack made all the difference in the world. I think if the combat system felt like the combat sequences from BSG, we would have a winner of a space combat system. |
Philipp1980 GROUP: Members POSTS: 164 |
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Jan. 05 2006, 12:27 pm
well, the devs are right when they say that in most encounters ships seem to be on the same level, at least before the fight, facing each other.
but of course there are exceptions. In the battle where the federation retakes DS9 the klingons come from an upper right angle to join the fun, and we've all seen forms of "dogfighting" at least with the smaller ships (venture/defiant class), but not that often with the bigger ships.
Sure enough these "dogfights" got more popular once special effects reached a higher level and it was easier to make scenes like that for TV
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CinCUFPForcesCardassia GROUP: Members POSTS: 219 |
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Jan. 05 2006, 2:06 pm
| Quote (DojhromTRW @ Jan. 05 2006, 8:40 am) | | I think if the combat system felt like the combat sequences from BSG, we would have a winner of a space combat system. |
I 100% positively agree. Unfortunately, they're in a conundrum with that - Galactica's combat sequences are almost a direct response to the ridiculously non-Newtonian movement patterns from our very own Star Trek. While I would do anything to embrace that kind of movement, people would scream about how it would be stylisticly not Star Trek, and they would be right. |
TheOneAndOnlyQ GROUP: Members POSTS: 385 |
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Jan. 05 2006, 10:19 pm
2D's alright for me, as long as the graphics are good. (Like the Starfleet Command series--it's basically run on a 2D plane but has a great view)
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DuneBlaster GROUP: Members POSTS: 21 |
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Jan. 06 2006, 7:25 am
I totally agree with de developers on this point: | Quote |
Also, keep in mind that oftentimes a crew of players is going to be working together to control their vessel, not just one player, so we want the entire crew to have exciting and interesting things to do. This is another reason to avoid focusing too heavily on heading and azimuth decisions: we don't want to overly glorify the role of the person steering the ship. The entire bridge crew should have an equal part in determining the fate of the vessel. This reflects the spirit of Star Trek: while the pilot is important, and certainly saves the day occasionally, success in most episodes comes from the interaction of the entire bridge crew working together. |
Sure 3D movement in space combat sounds nice and great but every comment here puts the focus on the pilot. One who controls the ship. The rest of the crew will be doing other things. These aren't Starfighters these are Big ships and most Starfleet vessels weren't designed with combat in mind but exploration. I have seen mine share of space combat in Star Trek and I think the best solution to add a little bit more depht is adding a couple of 2D planes for ships to operate on (1 starting plain, 2 up and 2 down). I think the manauvers seen in the series could become availible as skills. Example: A vetran pilot might be able to initiate a complex evasive or offensive patrons to counter an attack or attack. |
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